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Hi there! And, BOOGAH-BOOGAH-BOO!!!!! What, all of the Righties are twisting up their tidy-whities by this SHOCKING proposal? They are SHOCKED, just SHOCKED that Wasserman-Schultz and Shuman are proposing more gun control, just as they always do! Oh, and she's the new Chairman of the Democratic National Committee, so therefore all Democrats and fellow-liberals will have to fall into lockstep with her proposal, of course, since all of them believe exactly the same things at the same time. And it will certainly clear Congress. Yah, sure.

Try to grasp this: just because a big-shot Democrat proposes a new law based upon her personal beliefs does NOT mean that it will become official Democratic Party policy or a "plank" of the Party Platform. Each plank of the platform gets VOTED ON by the party national convention. Then, even IF it gets "approved" by the convention..........it means NOTHING except a statement of what the majority of the delegates thought they should vote on to appear in solidarity. NO DEMOCRAT IS OBLIGATED TO FOLLOW IT, and you can be sure that most will completely ignore it, as they always have, just like Republican Party members ignore their own platforms too. She can manage the Party and its fundraising, but she cannot "control" all of the members and every individual elected party member of Congress.

If this proposal ever reaches Congress, it is up to US to influence our own Representatives and Senators to vote OUR will, not Wasserman-Schultz's will............................elsullo
 
A Rightie steals some of my fish and gives it to a fat cat, so they can use that power to create more righties, so they can steal even more fish. And when all the fish are gone, until they are shooting the fat cats, who cares!

Except that 40% + of the US public does not even pay any income tax at all.. and the wealthy (which I am not) pay far more than their "fair share", percentage wise.. so my parable holds true. Many are just mooching while the middle class and up pay for everything

You can never tax your way to prosperity. Only real free market conditions or criminal enterprise can make money
 
The first signs of running out of facts are name calling and insults.
:s0155:X2 to Blitz> You can never tax your way to prosperity. Only real free market conditions or criminal enterprise can make money < And as Winston Churchill said,,please forgive me if I miss quote and butcher this, "Trying to tax your way out of a recession is like trying to lift a bucket by the handle, with YOU in it"!
 
I guess not being able to sell a gun without special licensing through the government and the government keeping track is OK with some of our Leftists here. Why do I need the government to sell my own property? Please do feel free to explain.
 
Except that 40% + of the US public does not even pay any income tax at all.. and the wealthy (which I am not) pay far more than their "fair share", percentage wise.. so my parable holds true. Many are just mooching while the middle class and up pay for everything

You can never tax your way to prosperity. Only real free market conditions or criminal enterprise can make money

Yes, a parable that is also a bit of joke, we each told one, and I claim mine was as valid as yours. You had me until you suggested that the rightes were willing to give some of their fish to train people to fish, lol, just kidding.

A parable is neither true or false, it just is, either it has some value or it doesn't. I claim mine was more original, but only by a small amount.
 
IMHO 80% of Elected Democrats Nationwide are Antis .

That could be true. But a large segment of Democratic voters, and left-leaning independents, are gun owners. Union members, inner city residents, rural voters. So there is room for a big debate about the value of gun control to reduce violence, especially if it is framed that way - does gun control do anything to reduce violence? In 2006 there was a debate within the Democratic party about gun control and it was pretty decisively decided to leave it alone.
 
I guess not being able to sell a gun without special licensing through the government and the government keeping track is OK with some of our Leftists here. Why do I need the government to sell my own property? Please do feel free to explain.

If you buy a gun from a dealer or through an agent, they currently do a check, since this data is known to the gov they could be 'keeping track' right now.
Do you find that an infringement?
If not then you find that this would now apply to private party sales is the infringement?
You have no problem selling a gun to a private party you don't know, based only on having some ID?


Again, your not being specifc enough for me to respond.
 
Sorry buggy, to do so would be in violation of the Firearm Owners Protection Act.

<broken link removed>

Amends the rulemaking authority of the Secretary to provide that no regulation may require: (1) the transfer of records required under this Act to a facility owned, managed, or controlled by the United States or any State; or (2) the establishment of any system of registration of firearms, firearm owners, or firearm transactions. Requires a 90-day public comment period for proposed regulations.

So, even if one was convicted using said data, the conviction would be easily overturned.
And also due to the FOPA, overturning the conviction would entitle the aquittee to have their legal fees paid by the arresting agencies and their firearms returned.
 
Here's an old quote that might explain it ; "This year will go down in history, for the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficent,and the wourld will follow our lead into the future." Adolph Hitler 1935 !!!!!! I think that just about say's it all.
 
If you buy a gun from a dealer or through an agent, they currently do a check, since this data is known to the gov they could be 'keeping track' right now.
Do you find that an infringement?
If not then you find that this would now apply to private party sales is the infringement?
You have no problem selling a gun to a private party you don't know, based only on having some ID?


Again, your not being specifc enough for me to respond.

I asked you a specific question and all I received was deflection, OK I'll be specific, do you, Bugeye, support or object to the proposals in the original post as proposed by the Democrats proposing these laws?




Here are the points from the first post:

The incoming head of the Democratic National Committee says she supports background checks for all gun purchases, and Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz, D-Fla., says she'll co-sponsor a bill in Congress to enact a new law requiring them.

So she plans to support the Fix Gun Checks Act Rep. Carolyn McCarthy, D-N.Y., plans to introduce later this year. That legislation would require unlicensed gun dealers to perform background checks whenever someone buys a gun, even at gun shows. Previously, only licensed gun sellers have had to perform the checks.


Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., has introduced a companion bill in the Senate that the National Rifle Association panned as a government overreach that ignores due process."... although Sen. Schumer touts his bill primarily as one to change the background check process, it would also greatly increase the number of people who are prohibited from possessing any firearm, with little regard for every American's right to due process before being stripped of a fundamental civil right," the NRA said in a statement on its website.

A simple question Bugeye but let me repeat it in case you have forgotten it already:

Bugeye, (do you) support or object to the proposals in the original post as proposed by the Democrats proposing these laws?
 
Except that 40% + of the US public does not even pay any income tax at all.. and the wealthy (which I am not) pay far more than their "fair share", percentage wise.. so my parable holds true. Many are just mooching while the middle class and up pay for everything

You can never tax your way to prosperity. Only real free market conditions or criminal enterprise can make money

On paper the top wage earners pay a huge part of the tax bill. Reality is somewhat different. I am in the top bracket, (35%), but by taking advantage of all the (legal) deductions and exemptions my real adjusted tax rate is around 17%, which is much lower than the average middle level wage earner, who cannot meet the requirements for the deductions I am allowed. Corporations pay less after all the loopholes are jumped through, most pay 0. True tax equality is a myth in this nation. We need a flat tax with no exemptions. Period.

I agree that while the leaders of the left can propose all the gun laws they want, getting those proposals into law is a whole other kettle of fish.
 
At 17% you're doing a lot better than most if you are truly in the "top bracket" M2.

<broken link removed>
The table, sorted by income showing percentage (requires MS spreadsheet software):
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/08in04atr.xls

Or you can read a summary here:
The Tax Foundation - Summary of Latest Federal Individual Income Tax Data

So the top 1% pay at an average of 23.27% on 20% of all Adjusted Gross Income. This amounts to 38% of all income taxes paid.
The top 10% pay at a rate of 18.7% on 45.77% of all AGI. That amounts to 69.9% of all income taxes paid.
The top 25% pay at a rate of 15.6% on 67.8% of all AGI. That amounts to 86.3% of all income taxes paid.

Of course the bottom 50% of all taxpayers pay only 2.7% of their income in taxes. That amounts to only 2.59% of all income taxes paid.

So, since buggy claims the rich are ripping off the poor, they MUST be doing it through other means, cuz it sure isn't through taxes!
Either that or buggy is full of it AGAIN.

You decide.
 
Hi there! And, BOOGAH-BOOGAH-BOO!!!!! What, all of the Righties are twisting up their tidy-whities by this SHOCKING proposal? They are SHOCKED, just SHOCKED that Wasserman-Schultz and Shuman are proposing more gun control,

Shocked ? On the contrary, it has been expected , it's currently Status Quo to step on the 2nd !!
 
I'm still waiting to hear how Obama has expanded my gunrights. That claim was made back on page one and the poster never accepted my invitation to explain it.

I wish there were a good way to keep guns out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them. The problem, at least as I see it, is that the slope is too slippery. Give them that infringement, and the antis will keep pushing for more and more. Webster's defines infringement as "an encroachment or trespass on a right or privilege." So it seems to me that anything restricting access to or display of firearms is an infringement on the 2nd amendment. And requiring a background check, which will almost assuredly come with a fee is an infringement.
 
At 17% you're doing a lot better than most if you are truly in the "top bracket" M2.

<broken link removed>
The table, sorted by income showing percentage (requires MS spreadsheet software):
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/08in04atr.xls

Or you can read a summary here:
The Tax Foundation - Summary of Latest Federal Individual Income Tax Data

So the top 1% pay at an average of 23.27% on 20% of all Adjusted Gross Income. This amounts to 38% of all income taxes paid.
The top 10% pay at a rate of 18.7% on 45.77% of all AGI. That amounts to 69.9% of all income taxes paid.
The top 25% pay at a rate of 15.6% on 67.8% of all AGI. That amounts to 86.3% of all income taxes paid.

Of course the bottom 50% of all taxpayers pay only 2.7% of their income in taxes. That amounts to only 2.59% of all income taxes paid.

So, since buggy claims the rich are ripping off the poor, they MUST be doing it through other means, cuz it sure isn't through taxes!
Either that or buggy is full of it AGAIN.

You decide.
Yes. I am...it's called planning ahead and not getting too greedy. While I like it...I think the corporate tax situation is ludicrous.
 
I'm still waiting to hear how Obama has expanded my gunrights. That claim was made back on page one and the poster never accepted my invitation to explain it.

I wish there were a good way to keep guns out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them. The problem, at least as I see it, is that the slope is too slippery. Give them that infringement, and the antis will keep pushing for more and more. Webster's defines infringement as "an encroachment or trespass on a right or privilege." So it seems to me that anything restricting access to or display of firearms is an infringement on the 2nd amendment. And requiring a background check, which will almost assuredly come with a fee is an infringement.

Let me outline the expanded rights in great detail, here: {_________________________________________________________________}:s0155::s0114:
 
You guys are all just hurling vapid analogies. *yawn*

As I tell my kids, settle down, discuss things from your point of view instead of projecting. Then, we can get some clarity.

Right. Let's have another left right pissing match, that will stop this legislation. Fact is, pro gun lefties are strategically placed to really put the monkey wrench in this type of elitist nonsense, if we can pull some moderates and conservatives together around a re-frame of the debate. For example, if the issue is gun violence, why not push for more, and better mental health services? That means more money for these programs (I know from personal experience that these services are very effective). This would be in line with Col. Dave Grossman's view of gun violence : "It's not the hardware, it's the software."
Why not push for summer jobs for young kids? Again, this takes money, but much less than locking kids up.
This debate is another example of the extreme dysfunction of our politics. The right uses the pro-gun cause to rally voters and raise money. The left uses the anti-gun cause to rally voters and raise money. Neither side proposes any practical ideas.

This.

Let's honestly stop the Left/Right better-worse BS; let's discuss fixing anti-gun mentality, without resorting to name calling, and instead using factual information as a basis. But, I suggest to some of those on the Right, that not all Leftists are anti-gun, pro-dealth penalty, anti-abortion, and fiscally conservative. Crazy, right; the world isn't black and white, and neither are people. Generalizations suck.

Weird, huh?
 
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