Dirty dirty rifle.....

[Member 34319]

My only concern is am going to start shooting hard cast lead bullets in all my Winchesters and hope I don't encounter any fouling or other bore issues.

I doubt I will as I will be loading them 'down' and I do not expect any problems.

I'll take lead fouling over copper fouling any day.

 

[RVTECH]

I'll take lead fouling over copper fouling any day.

I agree - and do not expect any leading as i'll be below 1500 FPS with these bullets.

 

[rick benjamin]

I clean my barrels with Hoppes no9 and Hoppes products.
Bronze brush, bore swab, patches, towel rag.
Bronze brush, bore swab, wet patch, the bore until relatively clean.
Stand the wet barrel muzzle down on the rag overnight.

Run a wet patch down the bore. Observe green or grey scum on patch.
Wet brush, bore swab the barrel until relatively clean.
Stand the wet barrel muzzle down on the rag overnight.
Run a wet patch down the bore. Observe green or grey scum on patch.

Green scum is emulsified bullet jacket.
Grey scum is emulsified lead.
I cleaned a Mauser Gew88 for about a year before it finally came clean
I cleaned a Ruger Blackhawk .45 (bowling pin competition) for at least 6 months till I noticed "thin wires" of lead lifting out of the grooves.
I cleaned a .22 rifle whose bore was smooth { it's rifling "shot-out"}.
When fully cleaned, the bores looked new (except for chamber throat wear)

 

[Mikej]

My only concern is am going to start shooting hard cast lead bullets in all my Winchesters and hope I don't encounter any fouling or other bore issues.

I doubt I will as I will be loading them 'down' and I do not expect any problems.

Do you shoot cast in any other guns? My one foray into cast boolits leaded the barrel so bad I never want to try lead again. Got those strings that @rick benjamin mentions. That balance of proper powder and bullet hardness and velocity to keep from leading was something I decided I didn't want to dink with. There's too many affordable, jacketed, projectiles out there to mess with that stuff. If people want to play old West, cast yer own, save money, to shoot in their gun that's fine with me!

I cleaned a Mauser Gew88 for about a year before it finally came clean

Ran the patch through this morning, still green. Couple more patches, brushed 6-8 strokes, oiled patch comes out dirty. Not as dirty as before though. See, I don't know if that 1902 barrel was cut in 1938-1940 OR Husqvarna put a new, shorter barrel on those guns when they were converted. I might be trying to get through 118 YO schmutz?

 

[Member 34319]

Something about lead semi wad cutters and 38 special though, that I can't quit.

 

[P7M13]

My question is, does it shoot well at the level of cleanliness?

 

[Greenbug]

Stop brushing, stop using an oily patch to check cleanliness.
Try only solvent patches for a go round.
I think you are getting false positives from the brush and or oily patch interacting with your cleaning solvent.

 

[rick benjamin]

If you can see lead threads, you're almost there. Looking real close, you can also see a skim of barrel metal showing through.
Keep at it and day by day, there will be more and more groove than gilding metal and/or lead.
Once was a requirement that for a day at the range, three days cleaning.

Accuracy: Was it accurate when new, or when it was run over by the truck?
My 1917 Enfield with a pretty hand-carved stock, (with a bursting bomb at the original chamber) shoots a 5 inch group at 25 yards.
My Remington 788 makes a 1 inch group at 100 yards (if I can hold myself still)
But the bores are clean, one less thing to blame when I miss.

Bore cleaning is separate from oiling and wiping fingerprints off.

 

[Joe13]

Well this was disappointing....

I clicked here thinking it was some sort of kinky thing having to do with guns

 

[rick benjamin]

My Dad's model 70 rifle shot a 1 inch group at 100 yards (1 MOA) for many deer seasons. Till the day it began to throw the bullets all over.
He took it to the local gun doctor who discovered that the muzzle had developed a restriction (choke). Quick n easy, he lopped a couple inches off the muzzle, re-crowned it (Joe13, have your Doc perform that job).
Dad was happy with the restored accuracy, but now he complained the muzzle blast and flame scared the neighbors.

I now own Dad's rifle, may replace the barrel this summer.

 

[rick benjamin]

Dad cleaned his rifle religiously once after a range or hunt trip. Crud built-up at the muzzle till it became an issue.

 

[homeuser6]

enough copper chore boy wrapped around a brush for a tight fit in the barrel removes leading better than anything else.
( from veral smith/glenn fryxell books, works for me )

 

[RVTECH]

There's too many affordable, jacketed, projectiles out there to mess with that stuff.

Well this is not necessarily accurate.
Loading .30-30 requires either RN or FP bullets and that narrows the field.
Also I prefer to load the lightest bullets I can with reduced loads and typically that has been either 100 grain Speer Plinkers or 110 gr JRN and I have been buying them one box at a time (when they are in stock).
I have been wanting to find some bulk plated 110s but right now literally all mfgs of them are out with no restock in sight so an alternative is 135 grain hard cast lead FP from an Oregon manufacturer of them and at $83 / K the price is right.
To answer your original question I have shot a lot of cast out of various calibers (and currently do) and have never had problems with leading. I have read and heard of people having problems with lead bullets and a lot of it has simply been due to a lack of loading experience and not properly researching load data for the cast bullets the person is using. I have heard of some simply loading up cast using jacketed data and have had leading as well as inconsistent or very poor accuracy.
While I would prefer the 110 grain bullets supply issues right now dictate I find an alternative.

 

[Mikej]

My question is, does it shoot well at the level of cleanliness?

I'm not sure I shoot well enough! Clean or dirty. That's another thing to ad to the equation! When/if I get a good group out at 75 yards I wonder if maybe I missed and got close shots.

Stop brushing, stop using an oily patch to check cleanliness.
Try only solvent patches for a go round.
I think you are getting false positives from the brush and or oily patch interacting with your cleaning solvent.

I'm pretty sure that there's old powder residue deep in the grooves. And I'm still getting green this morning, and just now, after the barrel sat over night and wet since 8:00am.

If you can see lead threads, you're almost there. Looking real close, you can also see a skim of barrel metal showing through.
Keep at it and day by day, there will be more and more groove than gilding metal and/or lead.
Once was a requirement that for a day at the range, three days cleaning.

Accuracy: Was it accurate when new, or when it was run over by the truck?
My 1917 Enfield with a pretty hand-carved stock, (with a bursting bomb at the original chamber) shoots a 5 inch group at 25 yards.
My Remington 788 makes a 1 inch group at 100 yards (if I can hold myself still)
But the bores are clean, one less thing to blame when I miss.

Bore cleaning is separate from oiling and wiping fingerprints off.

I'm haven't been shooting led. And IF this gun was shot previously it was more than likely Swedish jacketed military stuff.

Well this is not necessarily accurate.
Loading .30-30 requires either RN or FP bullets and that narrows the field.
Also I prefer to load the lightest bullets I can with reduced loads and typically that has been either 100 grain Speer Plinkers or 110 gr JRN and I have been buying them one box at a time (when they are in stock).
I have been wanting to find some bulk plated 110s but right now literally all mfgs of them are out with no restock in sight so an alternative is 135 grain hard cast lead FP from an Oregon manufacturer of them and at $83 / K the price is right.
To answer your original question I have shot a lot of cast out of various calibers (and currently do) and have never had problems with leading. I have read and heard of people having problems with lead bullets and a lot of it has simply been due to a lack of loading experience and not properly researching load data for the cast bullets the person is using. I have heard of some simply loading up cast using jacketed data and have had leading as well as inconsistent or very poor accuracy.
While I would prefer the 110 grain bullets supply issues right now dictate I find an alternative.

I understand and don't disagree with you. I just know my experience with lead wasn't great in that S&W 629.. I've probably shot factory lead ammo in some other handguns, .38 sp probably, and had no issues that I recall

 

[Greenbug]

Try a different solvent. Some barrels react better to different chemicals. I never had any luck with hoppes #9 for cleaning, however the smell does good things for my memories of days gone by.

 

[DunRanull]

Try a different solvent. Some barrels react better to different chemicals. I never had any luck with hoppes #9 for cleaning, however the smell does good things for my memories of days gone by.

Hoppes #9- men's cologne should smell as good!

 

[rick benjamin]

If only the wemmen liked it...