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Dillon Powder Measure Inconsistent using WC844

Discussion in 'Ammunition & Reloading' started by ripcity, Jun 25, 2014.

  1. ripcity

    ripcity Milwaukie Active Member

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    So I'm trying to load .223 rounds but my powder measure is being very inconsistent. I'm using the powder measure that come with my xl650. I try to keep the stroke of the machine the same every time. I have read that wc844 meters very well, but not in my case. I'm trying to throw 25Gr. I will get charges anywhere from 24.5-25.2 with a RCBS 10.10 scale. That seems like a huge difference. So today I ran 50 drops, to help break it in, but the inconsistent drops continued. Have you guys ever had this problem? When I used to use my RCBS powder drop it was more consistent always landing on 25Gr. Any ideas to help me out would be awesome.
     
  2. Twodogs

    Twodogs portland Or Active Member

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    Dillon sells an adapter to your powder die so you can your RCBS charger I use a redding to throw Varget with.
     
  3. DAPSRT

    DAPSRT Dallas, Or Active Member

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    I've never had any issues with WC844 throwing inconsistently but granted, I do not use a dillon machine for it. Sounds to me like a little something is out of whack. Did you try calling Dillon to see if they have any suggestions? Normally they're pretty helpful.
     
    My 3 sons likes this.
  4. ripcity

    ripcity Milwaukie Active Member

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    I think I will give them a call tomorrow. Thanks
     
  5. My 3 sons

    My 3 sons Bonney Lake Active Member

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    I run a 650 with spherical and flake powders and have a .1g variance at most. I agree to call Dillon and check out the set up with them. It might be length of the rod that actuated the drop or the powder bar spring not pulling it all the way back. Static in the bottle can effect it too.
     
  6. ripcity

    ripcity Milwaukie Active Member

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    I am thinking it has to be something because the variances is so big. It may be that powder drop because my other drop gives me really consistent drops using true blue, AA #7, and WSF. They were all within .1g at most. I will open it up and check for burs.
     
  7. AMProducts

    AMProducts Maple Valley, WA Jerk, Ammo Manufacturer Silver Supporter

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    Two things...

    1) Use the large charge bar

    2) Turn off the fan, close the door/window

    Repeat your test :)

    The other possibility here is you are not working the powder measure all the way (the charge bar isn't moving to the end of the stroke). When setting up you should push the bar by hand to throw the charge, and you should make sure the bar is operating fully.

    Generally when I run the dillon measure, I disconnect that stupid double-charge lock bar wtf it is, and then put a return spring on. The return bar is kept in place just to make sure the bar doesn't jam.

    Oh I should also mention... if you're sizing brass on the machine, at the same time as loading, the extra powder may be sticking to the inside of the case due to lube, and you may get extra sometimes, and not others. Use a clean case.
     
  8. ripcity

    ripcity Milwaukie Active Member

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    Just wanted to give an update. So I've been messing with this powder drop issue for months. I would mess with it, get frustrated, come back to it a few weeks later. I did this a few times. It only happen after I changed powder drops. After AMProducts post regarding the powder bar, I looked at it to see if it was stroking the whole distance. I took the ram up and was examining what it could be. I looked at the powder bar and thought it is out a little way's out (towards me). I tapped it with my finger and it the powder bar moved another 1/8-3/16 or so, and wa-law I got a huge charge.. I dropped the powder measure die until it would hit the case, then backed it off about a turn, and now it throws very consistent charges.

    Thanks to everyone who responded, and to Dillon tech support. I thought I had this machine down, but it definitely stumped me.

    It seems when I read posts from other websites and forums I rarely hear if it was fixed and better yet how they fixed it, so I thought it would be good to let anyone know who might be having the same problem.

    Now I'm excited that I get to reload .223, I'm getting fairly low on ammo!
     
  9. AMProducts

    AMProducts Maple Valley, WA Jerk, Ammo Manufacturer Silver Supporter

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    there is much that you would learn grasshopper
     
  10. noylj

    noylj high desert Active Member

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    1) Dillon is simply a licensed large Lee Auto Pro-Disk with an ACB that actually works. For best results, match the ACB to the charge weight being dispensed (they have several sizes of ACBs for various charges).
    2) Most consistent charge weights come from a powder measure with a rotor, in my experience. The Dillon is more than adequate, but for those who are actually shooting VERY long range and may actually NEED +/- 0.1gn charges for rifles, I find the Hornady to be the most consistent that I have used (with the correct rotor installed), with the Lee Perfect Powder Measure being second.
     
  11. Darkker

    Darkker Mesa, Wa Active Member

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    Actually for consistent charge weights, you use a scale. For a consistent volume, you use the Dillon.
    I've been shooting my 308 to a mile for a wee over a year now, I haven't weighed, nor check weighed any powder in a few years.

    Volume and weight are not the same thing. Case fill consistency is important for long range. Weight won't get you that, but volumes of powder will.
     
  12. Benchrest

    Benchrest The Desert Planet Well-Known Member

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    [QUOTE="volume and weight are not the same thing. Case fill consistency is important for long range. Weight won't get you that, but volumes of powder will.[/QUOTE]

    But given any loading session, if conditions don't vary greatly, aren't weight and volume the same?
     
  13. Darkker

    Darkker Mesa, Wa Active Member

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    No they aren't, which is why most people get them confused. This is a horribly over simplification, but if they were no bread recipe would call for cups of flour; they would call for ounces.

    Powders are built with a rather large variance in Bulk Density(weight from amount of nitro glycerin). MOST powder resellers won't even tell you what that nominal variance is.
    With extruded, that extra energy is accounted for in a closely tied geometry change; since burning rate is slowed or sped-up by kernel size.
    With ball powders that burning rate is controlled by coatings, and has nothing to do with geometry.

    Volume is spacial, regardless of weight. Weight is mass, regardless of space taken.
     
    Benchrest and My 3 sons like this.
  14. My 3 sons

    My 3 sons Bonney Lake Active Member

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    Where's the over simplification part? ;)
    Great explanation Darkker.
     
  15. Benchrest

    Benchrest The Desert Planet Well-Known Member

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    I've been edumacated!

     
  16. Darkker

    Darkker Mesa, Wa Active Member

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    Although it USED to be published by most, only Western now publishes the same helpful data.
    There has been a drastic set of changes of who/where things are built, and I see that BR numbers have significantly tightened since General Dynamics rebuilt the production line in the former IMR plant up in Quebec.

    But if you jump to Western's site and look at the Bulk Density numbers you can see them.

    So: if you see a BD variance of 3.6% in a given powder, here is your visual.
    -3.6___0___+3.6
    So if you have a bottle that is low @ -3.6, and you buy a new one that is heavy @ +3.6; you just had a burning rate change (extruded) of 7.2%, and that is the allowable normal.

    So with Extruded, a consistent Volume will account for the BR change in the bottles, a weight would not. With a ball powder (done by coatings), a Weight would account for the change, but not a Volume.

    Stay thirsty my friends:)
     
  17. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf SE Portland Well-Known Member

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    lol.. but it's a dry thirst!
     
  18. AMProducts

    AMProducts Maple Valley, WA Jerk, Ammo Manufacturer Silver Supporter

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    There are a few other things that come into play...

    Density can also be affected by:

    1) Ambient air humidity - certain powders, while they tend to be unaffected by it, will absorb humidity from the air. This is a huge issue with black powder substitutes.

    2) The amount of solvents remaining in the powder, these do evaporate over time.

    Generally speaking, I will set the machine up by weighing charges, however once the bar is set for the volume I want, I generally won't change from that. For the dillon bars, I actually drill and tap a hole in the side that locks the adjustment screw in place.