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Did Washington County Get This Wrong?

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by cascadianliberty2012, May 8, 2014.

  1. cascadianliberty2012

    cascadianliberty2012 DPR Portland Well-Known Member

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    I was just on the Washington County Police Department's website looking at their CHL information, because I'm transferring my license to that county. I found this:
    O) Even with a concealed handgun license, where can I not carry a firearm?
    (one of the responses) • Private property where the owner prohibits firearms possession

    Does anyone else find this strange and vague? It has always been my understanding that those "no guns allowed" signs pose no legal obligation to people coming in and that it would only be illegal if you were asked to leave and did not do so. I've heard that kind of question asked many times...

    What do you all think? Is that what Washington County is implying, or are they just plain wrong in their listing of the current law?

    LINK: http://www.co.washington.or.us/Sheriff/OtherServices/ConcealedHandguns/faq.cfm
     
  2. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Of course you are prevented from carrying on private property if the owner of said property doesn't want you to carry.

    If you walk past a NO GUN SIGN in to a building, hangin on a fence or stuck on a stake in the ground while carrying you are Trespassing. If you don't leave said property THEN You can ALSO be CHARGED with Trespassing.
     
  3. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    No, they have it 100% right. Private means private.

    You also have to realize that there is a bit of a difference legally between private property and private property open the the pubic. In the later they have many legal rules they have to follow that "closed" private property does not.
     
  4. cascadianliberty2012

    cascadianliberty2012 DPR Portland Well-Known Member

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    Storefronts are considered "private property," but have an open door to those that want to enter for obvious purposes. Obviously entering someone's house would be a bit different.

    As for no gun signs, this thread came up with the opposite of what you're saying: http://www.northwestfirearms.com/threads/armed-trespass.167488/#post-1089046
    http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/oregon.pdf
    No guns allowed signs do not have the force of law in Oregon. So no, it is not trespassing unless you are told to leave and refuse. This is different in many states though... By that same logic, entering a store that says "no outside food or drink" would be grounds to get you arrested for trespassing as well, and I doubt that's happened.
     
    ZigZagZeke and Nwcid like this.
  5. ZigZagZeke

    ZigZagZeke Eugene Silver Supporter Silver Supporter 2015 Volunteer

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    Yes, I recently got http://www.handgunlaw.us to clarify their analysis and it's definitely as described in Cascadian's last paragraph above.

     
  6. cascadianliberty2012

    cascadianliberty2012 DPR Portland Well-Known Member

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    I also checked Clackamas County's page and they differentiate between private property such as homes and others like businesses in their explanation. They say that under "specific circumstances" one could be charged with trespassing for having a gun in a business that doesn't permit it. I think clearly those "circumstances" are what we've discussed, like refusing to leave when asked.
     
    ZigZagZeke likes this.
  7. ZigZagZeke

    ZigZagZeke Eugene Silver Supporter Silver Supporter 2015 Volunteer

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    Here is the answer from www.handgunlaw.us:

     
  8. GrpCapMandrake

    GrpCapMandrake Vancouver Active Member

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    I have never been to a house with a no guns allowed sign posted. I don't think I have ever seen one.

    Can I get a "No Liberals" sign and have them arrested for trespassing?
     
  9. Doc In UPlace

    Doc In UPlace Tacoma-ish Well-Known Member

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    If nobody knows you're armed but you, then nobody knows and doesn't need to know. "Problem" solved.
    This is chiefly a matter of perception. If, in the extreme unlikelihood you have to save some lives by shooting an attacker, you can deal with the survivor's lack of gratitude later.
     
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  10. Martini_Up

    Martini_Up NW USA Well-Known Member

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    FPNI.

    You can CC on private property with public access (stores/restaurants generally) which as posted "no guns allowed".
    If asked to LEAVE and you DON'T, then you're TRESPASSING.

    If asked to leave and you do, no problems even though you initially walked past the sign while CC.

    Of course my question is how did the person get caught because concealed is concealed!!! :)
     
    cascadianliberty2012 and RicInOR like this.
  11. BigStick

    BigStick Sherwood, OR Well-Known Member

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    I've seen a few of these signs:

    http://www.bing.com/images/search?q...A731D1B17526710E9F96A9E061FA&selectedIndex=29

    And a few of these:

    http://www.bing.com/images/search?q...A7E73B424A700273130769F608E96&selectedIndex=4

    But only on the internet. Nobody on that side actually believes their own rhetoric enough to announce to criminals that they are unarmed.
     
  12. RicInOR

    RicInOR Washington County Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    What you can control are your choices and attitude.
    A certain jeweler near me has a sign posted- not prominently, but I saw it. I respected their wishes and did not spend any money there.

    I see some more vague area in the modern 'public square' - that is the mall. Indoor or outdoor. Since the public is welcomed to the space, shouldn't it be treated as if it were owned by the public? Could a private mall enforce a no breast-feeding rule? This space seems a little less cut and dry. (not the individual store in the mall, just the open space itself.

    Anyways, my standard is to respect their wishes and not spend my money there. If possible, I would tell the owner why.
     
    JRuby likes this.
  13. Koda

    Koda Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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    The WCSO paraphrase of the law is correct and mentioned nothing about signage.


    for it to be illegal for you to possess a firearm on private property the owner or person in charge must verbally tell you that firearms are not allowed. No guns allowed signs in Oregon are meaningless other than to tell you that concealed means concealed.
     
    cascadianliberty2012 likes this.