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Design a less attractive mass shooter school

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by Vantage, Dec 15, 2012.

  1. Vantage

    Vantage Pacific Standard Time Active Member

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    I'm putting this under Legal & Political because "off topic" just didn't seem right when it is obviously THEE topic of the hour right now.

    But feel free to move it if I'm wrong.

    Now.

    In light of the recent shooting... my thinking is that the only way to prevent these sort of things from happening in the future... at least at schools, is to design a better school.

    My first thought would be to have a double locked door system like they have at jails. You enter through one door that is remote locked and opened and enter into the admin section which is behind another locked door and would allow the office staff to determine who you were and why you were there. At least if he started shooting in there, he'd only get the office staff.

    The more I think of it... the more I think that it might be impossible to stop someone who is completely intent on targeting the school specifically. But my suspicions are that these things happen because the target is so easy.

    Perhaps if there were built in counter measures, then they'd be less appealing as targets for mass shootings.

    What else could be built into schools to make them a less attractive mass shooting location?
     
  2. 4Freedom

    4Freedom Boise, Idaho Well-Known Member

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    Armed guards at schools will probably scare away many of these cowardly idiots more than any other protective measure. Most of these guys are looking for the easiest target available to create as much carnage possible. If you notice these people generally choose places with helpless, unarmed people and where an armed response is far away. If armed guards are walking around it would be a major deterrent. They would most likely choose a crowded street corner , a mall food court or some other easier location instead, which would result in much less casualties then a classroom, where helpless children are trapped and easy targets.

    I like the idea about the secure doors.. It seems most of these shootings occur while classes are in session, as the children are even more helpless being confined into a classroom with no escape.
     
  3. hermannr

    hermannr Okanogan Highlands Well-Known Member

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    How to prevent these shootings? REQUIRE EVERY ADULT to carry for the protection of themselves, their students, and others.

    May I add...no mass shooting has ever happened in a school, university, theater...that allowed private citizens to carry, The worst school massacre that happened before the gun control laws was a bombing, not a shooting. Everyone carries, those that want to get attention through violence, loose, and look elsewhere.
     
  4. Redrum

    Redrum Portlandia Active Member

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    THIS


    Israel started this in the 1970s when the PLO was going into schools and shooting children...they armed the staff and guess what? no more school shootings
     
  5. deen_ad

    deen_ad Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    They also allowed the students to bring their weapons, even fully automatic ones to school. Of course no one in the present administration dares to propose this as it goes against their agenda.
     
  6. 8ball

    8ball WA Quit talkin' and start chalking!

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  7. fyrediver

    fyrediver Seattle Active Member

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    The issue of preventing attacks at a facility with large volume of people entering is that you create a bottle neck where the attack would then occur. The Entry Control Point becomes the primary target zone.

    If it's a turnstile system then people aren't able to retreat inside to safety quickly; AND someone has to lock the turnstile to keep the bad guy(s) outside WITH other victims. Who'd want THAT job? If it's open then the attacker can just wade through the victims and then enter freely just like he did in this shooting. The Sandyhook school was reportedly a very secure facility. Once the gatekeepers are killed, then you're inside.

    It's been difficult for our military to achieve security at their bases in Afghanistan and elsewhere. Just look at how many attacks have occurred at the entry points there.
     
  8. deen_ad

    deen_ad Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    There was a case where a 24 yr old mother walking her children to school saw a man working with wires going under his clothing and drew her .45 and held him till security forces arrived. The news reported that Israeli security forces detained him, never mentioning the woman's actions. So reports, especially on a Wikipedia can be wrong. After all anyone can post a wiki with what ever info they want.
     
  9. deen_ad

    deen_ad Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    Actually the schools we have now are sufficient, they just need a few armed parents walking the hallways and grounds. That would eliminate the "free shooting areas" that the shooters prefer.
     
  10. duane black

    duane black Washington Well-Known Member

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    Had this same discussion with my retired cop dad. I thought I had it all figured out, card controlled access, armed security, armed school staff, contingency plans, etc.

    He said;

    Then it will he busses.

    Then the bus stop.

    Then it will be karate class, dance, gymnastics...

    See where I'm going with this ?

    I do not have the answers, as a parent I now believe schools should be one of the most sensitive places in society. I have no idea why they are not. This is not 1965 anymore and we as Americans have known this for some time.

    I'm now terrified about sending my 4 year old to public kindergarten next year here in Vancouver. I will not be around to protect her anymore.

    Not sure what the answers are. I do know after living a lifetime in California it isn't gun control. In the SF bay area crime was/is completely out of control. I have been through what I believe are the toughest areas in the US. Oakland, Richmond, Stockton, Antioch, gun control has had ZERO effect and only made people like me ( law abiding ) vulnerable.

    Getting off topic a bit.

    I believe we need to harden our soft targets, but do not get into a false sense of security that it will even work.

    When evil has a will...

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
     
    Ian1816 and (deleted member) like this.
  11. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    Well this talk is where the so called "Gun Culture" in America,ends at the front door of the school.
    They say we have a gun culture,but don't let anyone protect their children.
    Israel's populous has to be a gun culture to survive. They understand these things.
    Time the mamby pambies did too. Time they get educated to see had the principle been carrying,he could have shot the guy instead of trying to jump him.
    If parents are going to send their children to schools with children whose parents mind bubblegum them everyday and make them dangerous,they need to realize more security is needed.

    No we'll say that we don't want our schools to be like jails. We want them to be open and friendly. Otherwise the children will be scared at school and not learn.
    (kinda what's going on about now?)
    This will lead to more exodus from public schools to private schools.
    That will have security,or will hire more security.And will be like Vantage said ,with double doors and armed guards.

    This will take the public changing their entire mindset of their world as it is now.You know,that safe little fairytale life ?

    Whatever happens,it will not go well for us as gun owners
     
  12. Vantage

    Vantage Pacific Standard Time Active Member

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    We're not talking about ending mass shootings all together. I was just asking, much like people discuss their dream bug out house, what would be the ideal secure school. I've been in computer chip manufacturing plants had that greater security than my kids school.

    How about taking a few places that we deem important and say, "Mass shootings are still going to happen, but they're not going to happen here"
     
  13. Vantage

    Vantage Pacific Standard Time Active Member

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    I'm totally down with a few staff being armed. I'd like it to be a mandated part of the occupation, "You wanna be a school teacher? You have any experience with firearms?"

    Maybe not all of them. I mean sheesh... some of them are molesters and criminals themselves. But at least the Principal, Vice Principal and at least a single Armed Security Guard.

    I would bet money that for every school in america, there would be a local private resource that would offer free hand gun/shooting training for the three people I mentioned above.
     
  14. brianjronk

    brianjronk Marysville, WA Active Member

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    I'm not for requiring anybody to do anything. I don't even like the idea of an armed security guard. If the school my kids go to could double as a prison, then they won't be going there.

    I think the best option is to allow staff to carry, if they choose to. See here for an example.

    I'd love to see firearms education in school also, but I'm not crossing my fingers.
     
  15. Cuthbert Allgood

    Cuthbert Allgood Clark County, WA Well-Known Member

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    if people want to limit these kinds of things happening, the media needs to stop with the nonstop coverage of this kind of crap. they make some random loser into an international celebrity every time.
     
  16. 22many

    22many PNW Well-Known Member

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    Or, they could install and require that all classrooms be locked during class. Not a 100% failsafe but it's a deterrent to phycos walking into a classroom and blasting away.
     
  17. samuelm16

    samuelm16 se pdx Well-Known Member

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    i work in the commercial rolling door industry, common to find ''fire doors'' installed where in a situation of fire they will close to keep the fire from from spreading to the rest of the facility, seems like it would be fairly easy to install some doors hidden in the ceiling that are out of sight and out of mind to as not make children feel they are in prison that could be closed in an instant at the first sign of a gunmen to seal off the classrooms and keep the fatalities low
     
    Vantage and (deleted member) like this.
  18. Vantage

    Vantage Pacific Standard Time Active Member

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    This is exactly the kind of stuff I was hoping for.

    I knew this stuff existed, but am not fluent enough in it to know how it would work.
     
  19. duane black

    duane black Washington Well-Known Member

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    This could also be coupled with a Shotspotter ( gunfire locator technology ) to work automatically behind the scenes. This was one of my thoughts; simply install solid high security outward opening doors to all class rooms and install computerized automatic locks. As soon as the Shotspotter detects gunfire the school goes completely locked, especially class rooms with zero human interaction. That way if the admin office is targeted first, the school still goes into lockdown mode and doesnt require a person to initiate.

    Kids wouldn't even know about it, if that was decided.

    Shotspotter : SST - World Leader in Gunshot Detection | SST | World Leader in Gunshot Detection and Location