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Other State Deputy sheriff enters IRS office to ask a question & guard pulls gun on him

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If I remember correctly, Criminal Justice in America 101 discusses the letter of the law, the spirit of the law and the use of discretion at each point in the CJS. Apparently the mall ninja never took that class.
I would agree if the same courtesy was extended to a CCW holder who made the mistake of not disarming before entering the building.

The outrage is because the person was a cop, who is: 1. "obviously not a threat" and 2. "Should be allowed to carry a gun anywhere," but the federal law doesn't make that distinction. He was there on personal business and subject to the same rules as you and me.

There's no audio in the tape, so for all we know the guard politely explained all this and said the deputy needed to wait for Federal Protective Services to come and decide whether they wanted to arrest and prosecute him and he responded by telling the guy to go to hell and walking away.

Does anyone here think if you committed an arrestable offense and told the deputy in the video to pound sand while walking away when he tried to detain you that he wouldn't have drawn his gun on you?
 
Deputy tried to bully his will and surprise...fail!

Sorry, being a Deputy doesn't mean you're God.

At certain times, even Deputies have to disarm...this was one of those times.
Disarm for what reason? He was on duty, gun-free zones don't apply. Funny how many members here brag about ignoring gun-free zone signs yet some think the deputy should have disarmed? :rolleyes:
 
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Disarm for what reason? He was on duty, gun-free zones don't apply. Funny how many members here brag about ignoring gun-free zone signs yet some think the deputy should have disarmed? :rolleyes:
I posted the law above. federal law prohibits the carry of firearms on federal property unless both a law enforcement officer and there on official business. The fact that he was in a on-duty/paid status has no bearing as he freely admits he was there on personal business.

Bottom line he broke federal law. The guard attempted to detain him and he walked away. That would not be permitted for an ordinary citizen
 
I posted the law above. federal law prohibits the carry of firearms on federal property unless both a law enforcement officer and there on official business. The fact that he was in a on-duty/paid status has no bearing as he freely admits he was there on personal business.

Bottom line he broke federal law. The guard attempted to detain him and he walked away. That would not be permitted for an ordinary citizen
Ah, I missed that part. Well, based on the video the guard drew on the deputy after he decided to retreat and pointed it at his back. To me it looks like it could have ended before it even started.
 

Flymph

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I posted the law above. federal law prohibits the carry of firearms on federal property unless both a law enforcement officer and there on official business. The fact that he was in a on-duty/paid status has no bearing as he freely admits he was there on personal business.

Bottom line he broke federal law. The guard attempted to detain him and he walked away. That would not be permitted for an ordinary citizen
But it should! (be permitted for an ordinary citizen)
 
Seems a little thin skinned from someone who works in a job where they regularly point guns at people.

While the reaction by the guard was extreme, even I know weapons are not allowed on Federal property- it's well posted outside. As he was not there on official business, that rule would apply equally to Gaston.



So he was committing a federal offense that comes with a fine and one year in prison. And then resisted arrest when the guard tried to detain him. It ultimately went his way because he's a cop and professional courtesy, yadda yadda. He was still breaking the law. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
When on duty, I carry in court all of the time when I am there on official business. When I went to renew my CPL the other day in the same building, I went in completely unarmed. Not so much as a set of fingernail clippers. I wasn’t on official business and I don’t do personal business on duty.

This may sound out of left field, but you NEVER know what someone’s motivations are. You don’t know who is dating who or what happened at home last night. You don’t know that someone had to move out to get safe and the only place they can be found now is at work. When offering “courtesy”, you may inadvertently allow someone to do something really ugly.
 
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The outrage is because the person was a cop, who is: 1. "obviously not a threat"
I've read that those who have a CPL are even less likely to be involved in A shooting than Cops...but I digress and understand your point.
 
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I would agree if the same courtesy was extended to a CCW holder who made the mistake of not disarming before entering the building.

The outrage is because the person was a cop, who is: 1. "obviously not a threat" and 2. "Should be allowed to carry a gun anywhere," but the federal law doesn't make that distinction. He was there on personal business and subject to the same rules as you and me.

There's no audio in the tape, so for all we know the guard politely explained all this and said the deputy needed to wait for Federal Protective Services to come and decide whether they wanted to arrest and prosecute him and he responded by telling the guy to go to hell and walking away.

Does anyone here think if you committed an arrestable offense and told the deputy in the video to pound sand while walking away when he tried to detain you that he wouldn't have drawn his gun on you?
Discretion requires intelligence. The LEO looked like an LEO and unless he was impersonating an office, mall ninja should have cut him slack with the understanding (1) it may be
policy that the officer wear his weapon while on the job/break/lunch, (2) not a good idea for an LEO to walk around disarmed in today’s climate. But like I said...intelligence required.
 
Discretion requires intelligence. The LEO looked like an LEO and unless he was impersonating an office, mall ninja should have cut him slack with the understanding (1) it may be
policy that the officer wear his weapon while on the job/break/lunch, (2) not a good idea for an LEO to walk around disarmed in today’s climate. But like I said...intelligence required.
Let me ask you this. With professional courtesy in mind, why would the deputy ever ask someone to disregard policy and put their job in jeopardy so you can avoid the time it takes to lock up your gun? If there are armed people in that building, I almost guarantee there are weapon lockers.
 

Tarawa86

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You don’t know who is dating who or what happened at home last night. You don’t know that someone had to move out to get safe and the only place they can be found now is at work. When offering “courtesy”, you may inadvertently allow someone to do something really ugly.
Heh, you may have just identified the guy who was unhappy with his tax refund this year.
 

Flymph

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When on duty, I carry in court all of the time when I am there on official business. When I went to renew my CPL the other day in the same building, I went in completely unarmed. Not so much as a set of fingernail clippers. I wasn’t on official business and I don’t do personal business on duty.

This may sound out of left field, but you NEVER know what someone’s motivations are. You don’t know who is dating who or what happened at home last night. You don’t know that someone had to move out to get safe and the only place they can be found now is at work. When offering “courtesy”, you may inadvertently allow someone to do something really ugly.
Why does that second statement remind me of the VA... ee-gads!
 
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Let me ask you this. With professional courtesy in mind, why would the deputy ever ask someone to disregard policy and put their job in jeopardy so you can avoid the time it takes to lock up your gun? If there are armed people in that building, I almost guarantee there are weapon lockers.
Did the guard ask him to put his weapon in one of their lockers? I may have missed that part. Whenever we were dropping someone at the jail we would enter the sallyport, lock up the weapon and escort the arrested individual inside. Never seemed a problem to me.
 

Alexx1401

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I posted the law above. federal law prohibits the carry of firearms on federal property unless both a law enforcement officer and there on official business. The fact that he was in a on-duty/paid status has no bearing as he freely admits he was there on personal business.

Bottom line he broke federal law. The guard attempted to detain him and he walked away. That would not be permitted for an ordinary citizen
Did you "hear" what you just said? Guard tried to detain an on duty LEO? Really? Does anyone really think this should go any other way?
 

Alexx1401

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Did the guard ask him to put his weapon in one of their lockers? I may have missed that part. Whenever we were dropping someone at the jail we would enter the sallyport, lock up the weapon and escort the arrested individual inside. Never seemed a problem to me.
According to the article, always iffy, it claimed he told the LEO he would have to go and leave it in his car.
 
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Did you "hear" what you just said? Guard tried to detain an on duty LEO? Really? Does anyone really think this should go any other way?
At that time and place the guard had authority and he did not. He is a local cop breaking a federal law on federal property in front of an armed guard specifically charged with dealing with such a thing. I Ihink he should have been arrested and charged as you or I would have been.

And let's not mistake the term "on-duty"with "on official business" (which is when he would have actually been allowed to keep his firearm with him). He was on duty from the moment he clocked in that morning until he clocked out at night, but no part of his duties took him to the IRS that day. He has stated he was there to ask a question that had nothing to do with his job.
 
When on duty, I carry in court all of the time when I am there on official business. When I went to renew my CPL the other day in the same building, I went in completely unarmed. Not so much as a set of fingernail clippers. I wasn’t on official business and I don’t do personal business on duty.

This may sound out of left field, but you NEVER know what someone’s motivations are. You don’t know who is dating who or what happened at home last night. You don’t know that someone had to move out to get safe and the only place they can be found now is at work. When offering “courtesy”, you may inadvertently allow someone to do something really ugly.
Lots of merit to this thinking, you just never know what’s in someone’s head. A typically stand up individual could go off the deep end. There are rules in place, for government buildings, for a reason. While I disagree with leaving a weapon in a vehicle, a lockbox should have been offered to the deputy... And might have, who knows. We only see silenced video that only shows a portion of what transpired...

There’s always another side to the story...
 
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Federal gun laws are unconstitutional. But, if the peasants have to disarm in a federal building, then why not law enforcement , as well? If the police are called for a purpose, that is a different story. I think pulling a gun on the cop was an obvious power trip deal, but not outside the realm of federal authority.

Federal gun laws are disgusting and are one of the most prominent signs that we do live in a country ruled with totalitarian authority, although less totalitarian than others. Nonetheless, federal gun laws are a blatant desecration and violation of our 2nd Amendment and hopefully one day will be abolished or, as sad as I am to say, be overthrown.

The fact your gun rights don't apply to Federal zones, means the Constitution doesn't apply to Federal zones.

To be honest, the cop puts his life on the line every day and would be the first one called to defend these sludgebuckets if an active shooter came into their building. So, why not let him carry his gun there, especially since he is on duty?

Was he smart carrying his gun into a federal building while there on non-official business? No.. SHould he have the right that we don't have? No.. Should have the same rights we have? Yes!

Federal laws are the greatest form of tyranny and that is why I actually have to side with him, assuming he would have been just as supportive of any of us peasants (oh sorry, I mean citizens) have the same right as him. IF he woudl be against me and you carrying in the building , yet thinks he has the right, then I would say lock him up just as long as me and you would be locked up.
 

Alexx1401

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Lots of merit to this thinking, you just never know what’s in someone’s head. A typically stand up individual could go off the deep end. There are rules in place, for government buildings, for a reason. While I disagree with leaving a weapon in a vehicle, a lockbox should have been offered to the deputy... And might have, who knows. We only see silenced video that only shows a portion of what transpired...

There’s always another side to the story...
While sound would be nice, after watching it a few times the body language of the idiot was all I needed to see to not be surprised the Guard is being charged with a crime. The LEO is trying to leave, Barney has his gun out and is then trying to stop the LEO with gun in hand. This is a great way to have a disastrous accidental discharge. If the building was being guarded by Federal Cops I would hope you would not see this kind of show. If Barney told the LEO he could not carry and LEO told him to F off even, then call 911 and tell them some guy dressed as a Cop, is refusing to follow my authority. When guy dressed as a Cop is leaving? Let him go. It is amazing he did not touch off a round. It is also amazing to me that some want to defend Barney. The IRS needs to budget enough money to have off duty LEO's as guards there, or it they really insist on armed guards pay enough to have pro's. There are a LOT of places that hire LEO's who are retried or on days off for this who would not have done this.
 

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