Denver PD commit mass shooting

[Tarawa86]

In reality, no government employee performs perfectly under fire. Prime example is the US military.

US forced to import bullets from Israel as troops use 250,000 for every rebel killed

US forces have fired so many bullets in Iraq and Afghanistan - an estimated 250,000 for every insurgent killed - that American ammunition-makers cannot keep up with demand. As a result the US is having to import supplies from Israel.

m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk

Forgotten victims of 9/11: The 363,000 civilians killed during the War on Terror

We may never know how many innocent people US forces killed during the War on Terror – and that’s intentional, writes Josh Marcus

www.independent.co.uk

It's a big reason why I roll my eyes when military folks make YouTube videos on how bad LE tactics are. They get a free pass to kill folks and still suck at it.

Shhhh. This is a secret military tactic. We salt an enemies territory with lead now, instead of actual salt.

 

[RX-79G]

It's not what you portray it to be either. I don't put any stock in opinions of someone who believes that state actors need more rights than citizens, and therefore it is justifiable to restrict the rights of citizens and exempt state actors.

I've tolerated your disrespect for long enough.

 

[sobo]

Sadly many LEO's are not "shooters". They shoot enough to "qualify" and often that is not much. Then something like this happens. Since so many shooting involving LEO's are recorded now I am often shocked that hitting by standers does not happen a lot more than it does.
I did not see mentioned what was it the guy pulled from his pocket and tossed? Was it a gun? If so he caused this and if he survives he needs to pay for this.

Didn't have time to read the whole thread to see if your question was answered, but yes, it was indeed a gun the guy dropped. In the video below, you can see him toss the gun to the curb at the 0:25 mark. You can see it again, with the cop standing over it to preserve evidence, at the 0:42 to 0:45 mark. At the 1:13 mark, you can see the gun beyond him, next to the curb. The best view is from 1:32, where you can actually see the gun enter the frame (in mid-air!), to the 1:38 mark, before cutting to another view.

My suspicion: He knew he was a felon in possession of a firearm (he had served 4 years in a CO penitentiary for a 1st degree murder charge that was pled down) and that is a parole violation, so when first confronted by the DPD, he knew he had to dump the gun quickly. He turns around and heads back behind the Greek food truck to get concealment as he fishes in his hoodie pocket for his gun so he can dump it. He's not quick enough, as he's swarmed by several officers, and you can see how he struggles a bit to get it out of his jacket pocket. Before he gets it out, he's surrounded by LEOs, so when he finally does get it out, it looks to the LEOs like he's going to fire upon them. So, they open up on him (and the bystanders) as he tries to throw it away. I suspect he was initially trying to dump it under the food truck and hope LE didn't find it, but he missed.

 

[sobo]

A cop can shoot an armed mrderer running away from him. You cannot.

Yes, you can - at least in my state I can. This from my trainer, a sergeant in the local police force and a firearms trainer of both multiple police forces in the region and also civilians. The allowable circumstances are specific, but to say "You cannot" is demonstrably false and refutable. The circumstances that you listed (armed murderer) meet the burden for allowable firing upon a fleeing attacker.

We discussed this very scenario in one of my FOF trainings a couple years ago. Since I asked the question, I was chosen to illustrate the point... my trainer played the armed attacker. He and I squared off at each other, he took a shot at me, then turned and ran away. I did not shoot back, since he was running away. As he ran away, he half-turned and fired at me from under his support arm, and landed two UTM rounds in me. The point was adequately made, both for me, and the rest of the trainees...

 

[Alexx1401]

Didn't have time to read the whole thread to see if your question was answered, but yes, it was indeed a gun the guy dropped. In the video below, you can see him toss the gun to the curb at the 0:25 mark. You can see it again, with the cop standing over it to preserve evidence, at the 0:42 to 0:45 mark. At the 1:13 mark, you can see the gun beyond him, next to the curb. The best view is from 1:32, where you can actually see the gun enter the frame (in mid-air!), to the 1:32 mark, before cutting to another view.

My suspicion: He knew he was a felon in possession of a firearm (he had served 4 years in a CO penitentiary for a 1st degree murder charge that was pled down) and that is a parole violation, so when first confronted by the DPD, he knew he had to dump the gun quickly. He turns around and heads back behind the Greek food truck to get concealment as he fishes in his hoodie pocket for his gun so he can dump it. He's not quick enough, as he's swarmed by several officers, and you can see how he struggles a bit to get it out of his jacket pocket. Before he gets it out, he's surrounded by LEOs, so when he finally does get it out, it looks to the LEOs like he's going to fire upon them. So, they open up on him (and the bystanders) as he tries to throw it away. I suspect he was initially trying to dump it under the food truck and hope LE didn't find it, but he missed.

Then if the POS lives he needs to be charged not only for the gun but, for every person there hurt. When I first looked I saw a few comments along the lines of "why are they shooting us for no reason". Well don't know, maybe if he was not carrying a gun he was not supposed to have and then pulling it out when Cops tell him do not move he would not have been shot.

 

[RX-79G]

Yes, you can - at least in my state I can. This from my trainer, a sergeant in the local police force and a firearms trainer of both multiple police forces in the region and also civilians. The allowable circumstances are specific, but to say "You cannot" is demonstrably false and refutable. The circumstances that you listed (armed murderer) meet the burden for allowable firing upon a fleeing attacker.

We discussed this very scenario in one of my FOF trainings a couple years ago. Since I asked the question, I was chosen to illustrate the point... my trainer played the armed attacker. He and I squared off at each other, he took a shot at me, then turned and ran away. I did not shoot back, since he was running away. As he ran away, he half-turned and fired at me from under his support arm, and landed two UTM rounds in me. The point was adequately made, both for me, and the rest of the trainees...

Do you, or do you not recognize the host of situations where an officer would be justified in firing and you would not? I was trying to state it simply, but that was (of course) a mistake.

 

[sobo]

Do you, or do you not recognize the host of situations where an officer would be justified in firing and you would not? I was trying to state it simply, but that was (of course) a mistake.

< sigh >

You made a statement that was demonstrably false. Own it.

 

[RX-79G]

< sigh >

You made a statement that was categorically false. Own it

I gave a highly simplified example to be illustrative of the class of differences I was talking about. One can take that as intended from the simplistic way I stated it, or you can pick gnats out of it and divert the conversation elsewhere.

I own foolishly thinking that I can let my guard down for an instant and use a relaxed, conversational style rather than typing 10,000 words for the lawyers to dissect.


-sigh-

 

[sobo]

I gave a highly simplified example to be illustrative of the class of differences I was talking about. One can take that as intended from the simplistic way I stated it, or you can pick gnats out of it and divert the conversation elsewhere.

What part of "You cannot" was qualified as "highly simplified"? I detected no such qualification in your post. Rather, I read and understood your statement of "You cannot" as an immutable fact, much as I would expect the vast majority of readers to also conclude, despite what your intention may have been. "You cannot" is really quite an all-encompassing and restrictive statement, with no room for nuance, which you now seek to claim...

Don't know where the "picking gnats" and "divert the conversation" comments came from, since you stated your opinion as fact, someone took issue with that, and then provided a factual account of why your statement was false.. Just don't see any reason for the snark, but hey...

 

[Knobgoblin]

I gave a highly simplified example to be illustrative of the class of differences I was talking about. One can take that as intended from the simplistic way I stated it, or you can pick gnats out of it and divert the conversation elsewhere.

I own foolishly thinking that I can let my guard down for an instant and use a relaxed, conversational style rather than typing 10,000 words for the lawyers to dissect.


-sigh-

I believe you are well in excess of 10k words per day.

 

[Xaevian]

< sigh >

You made a statement that was demonstrably false. Own it.

That person has me on ignore (probably for pointing out their inconsistencies), but I can assure you, they won't own up to being wrong, ever. Forever never.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

I believe you are well in excess of 10k words per day.

Is that done on what is considered a High Capacity Assault keyboard...?
Andy

 

[Yarome]

I am usually willing to wait for more info because that is usually prudent.

In this case though, my knee jerk response is that the LEOs shot a bunch of innocent people.

I am not sure how anyone can justify that, regardless of what the "suspect" did (and it is questionable whether the suspect did anything illegal).

Yeah. No telling where the bystanders that were injured where located for us to know much either, but from the looks of it, there where multiple officers on scene with firearms on target. It seems like the bugglegum up was officers with a bad backdrop decided to pull anyway.. when there was more than sufficient force available with clean shots they should have deferred to.

Tunnel vision and piss poor situational awareness in the heat of the moment gone bad.

I doubt there is, "if you can shoot, you must" policy... but I could be wrong.

 

[sobo]

Is that done on what is considered a High Capacity Assault keyboard...?

Yes, and they're only issued to an elite group of special operators knowns as...

...the Keyboard Warriors!

 

[Knobgoblin]

Meybee when these 3 pistoleros lose their jobs in Denver, they can sign up with the EyeRS.

I heard they're recruiting shooters.

 

[American123]

That person has me on ignore (probably for pointing out their inconsistencies), but I can assure you, they won't own up to being wrong, ever. Forever never.

Accurate.

 

[American123]

Is that done on what is considered a High Capacity Assault keyboard...?
Andy

I heard California made those illegal if they have an ergonomic grip!

 

[American123]

Yes, you can - at least in my state I can. This from my trainer, a sergeant in the local police force and a firearms trainer of both multiple police forces in the region and also civilians. The allowable circumstances are specific, but to say "You cannot" is demonstrably false and refutable. The circumstances that you listed (armed murderer) meet the burden for allowable firing upon a fleeing attacker.

We discussed this very scenario in one of my FOF trainings a couple years ago. Since I asked the question, I was chosen to illustrate the point... my trainer played the armed attacker. He and I squared off at each other, he took a shot at me, then turned and ran away. I did not shoot back, since he was running away. As he ran away, he half-turned and fired at me from under his support arm, and landed two UTM rounds in me. The point was adequately made, both for me, and the rest of the trainees...

I was also thinking of the example of "mass shooter just shot 3 people" the shooter turns to run away with his gun. Good citizen pops the shooter while fleeing.

There's an RCW about it being lawful to use deadly force to stop violent felony acts. I'll need to look it up.

 

[RX-79G]

I believe you are well in excess of 10k words per day.

You'd be up there, too. But you mostly just post pictures other people made.

 

[Xaevian]

I was also thinking of the example of "mass shooter just shot 3 people" the shooter turns to run away with his gun. Good citizen pops the shooter while fleeing.

There's an RCW about it being lawful to use deadly force to stop violent felony acts. I'll need to look it up.

https://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9A.16.040