Dennis Richardson's idea to help stop mass murder in our schools- good plan!

[bellarum]

He has a great idea. I emailed him just to pat him on the back for being so logical in his approach to actually trying to save human lives at the soonest sign of those types of threats rather than the usual "ban this or that" easy answer everyone else seems to go with. I also like the emergency exit doors idea. When I was in grade school in SE Portland all of the class rooms in the our school had doors that extited the class rooms to the outside.

 

[mosinguy1]

I know that what you are saying is reality...sad reality! But it is nice to see a politician use a common sense approach to protecting our schools regardless if the implementation ever happens :0) ~mosinguy's wife~

 

[Jacketed]

Sorry, fantastic idea, but it will never fly.

Government doesn't want citizens taking care of themselves. This is asking for everyone from janitors to Principals to arm themselves and be school guardians, correct? Well, no badge, no go. Gov wants dependency, not independence, period.

Problem - shootings; Reaction - fear and panic; Solution - draconian laws and gun grabs only. Citizens willing to take up the cause need not apply.

I agree with you that it would not be easy but its a great start and in the right direction.

 

[omenwolf]

The reason it's a good idea is because it works. They do this in other countries and it works. Wonderful idea, I am behind this 100%!!!!!!!!

 

[bobu]

wanted to bump this back up, I also subscribe to DennisRichardson's newsletter and hope that everyone gets to read this issue. also contact info

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[coop44]

Let us all get behind this idea, email a copy of this thread to the white house. Let them know that voters are thinking of this.

Let's address the problem further, if you want to know why these things happen at the hands of deranged people, look back to the Reagan administration. Cutbacks at that time and decisions made by government administrators, signed off on by the White house, allowed for the release of thousands of mental patients onto the streets. As long as they were deemed "not to be a danger" at the time, they were discharged. Discharged to fend for themselves, neglect medication, in many cases live on the streets. Through lack of medication many of them turned from being "not a danger" to something entirely different. Time and time again when left to medicate themselves these mentally ill people will choose not to.

 

[Warthog]

I didn't read every response, so maybe this was already covered. I also think schools should seek volunteers to do access control. Almost all office buildings have one form or another of security and access control. I am sure there are lots of parents and neighbors who would be happy to sit at the main door of a grade school all day checking in visitors. With proper training an procedures it would buy enough time to sound the alarm, even if the volunteer was shot. Also, teachers need to be trained on firearms and there operation. I know I could stop a shooter even without a weapon. I may die, but he would be stopped.

 

[ThePhonMan]

Let us all get behind this idea, email a copy of this thread to the white house. Let them know that voters are thinking of this.

Let's address the problem further, if you want to know why these things happen at the hands of deranged people, look back to the Reagan administration. Cutbacks at that time and decisions made by government administrators, signed off on by the White house, allowed for the release of thousands of mental patients onto the streets. As long as they were deemed "not to be a danger" at the time, they were discharged. Discharged to fend for themselves, neglect medication, in many cases live on the streets. Through lack of medication many of them turned from being "not a danger" to something entirely different. Time and time again when left to medicate themselves these mentally ill people will choose not to.

On the surface, this seems like a logical argument. Then there is the application of statistical analysis that seems to point to flaws in the logic.

Reagan held office between 24 – 32 years ago. According to the CDC, the median age of the people affected by the "mental health reclassification" was between 18 and 35 years of age. Assuming that ALL patients were put "onto the streets" the last day of Reagan's administration that would put the average age of those effected between 42 and 59 years of age today. Also according to the CDC and HHS the life expectancy of chronically homeless ranges between 42 and 62 years of age (depending on which study you believe). There is no specific data for mentally ill, chronically homeless so we'll just use these as general numbers, again based on the "onto the streets" suggestion. There is also no actual data that can say for certain how many people were put "onto the streets" and not provided alternate care through other means (churches, community organizations, private care, etc.). Nobody thought that data was important enough to track and that is sad all by itself.

With very few exceptions, the mass casualty incidents we have all witnessed in the last decade were perpetrated by individuals that were between 16 and 28 years old. Some of these folks weren't even alive when Reagan was in office. If the many administrations that have held federal, state and local offices since then have not corrected the "problem" it is somewhat disingenuous to put that much blame at the feet of a long gone WH administration. Additionally, I can't recall any incident that specifically dealt with a mentally ill homeless person who was the primary actor. I'm not sure how someone who is a member of a family, has access to healthcare in many cases through their parents and choses to stop of self medicate can qualify as put "onto the streets".

Do we have a problem with sociopathic and psychotic behavior in certain individuals in the populace? Hell yes! Nobody is disputing that. How we deal with this will require reasoned thought and a critical analysis of the data, preferably from this decade.

 

[jbett98]

Maybe Tasers, pepper spray or rubber bullets, but never firearms. Not in our lifetimes.

 

[hermannr]

Maybe Tasers, pepper spray or rubber bullets, but never firearms. Not in our lifetimes.

It should be firearms, it should be firearms to the level that may be encountered in a confrontation...just the same reasoning used for the justification the cops having an M4 in their patrol car.

There is only one thing that I think the OP is missing. You should not hide the fact there are armed personell at the school, you should advertize it. I would bet dollars to donuts if the Newton shooter KNEW there were properly armed responders (school staff), he would have never attempted this activity.

The deterent effect cannot and should not be minimized.

 

[mjbskwim]

Originally Posted by Burt Gummer View Post
Sorry, fantastic idea, but it will never fly.

Government doesn't want citizens taking care of themselves. This is asking for everyone from janitors to Principals to arm themselves and be school guardians, correct? Well, no badge, no go. Gov wants dependency, not independence, period.

Problem - shootings; Reaction - fear and panic; Solution - draconian laws and gun grabs only. Citizens willing to take up the cause need not apply.

I agree with you that it would not be easy but its a great start and in the right direction.

Sometimes Burt is a joy kill. But then I watch his vid links and wonder if he doesn't have a good point.

But the real problem here will be with the insurance companies. If the armed people at the school aren't at least "armed guard" trained,they will drop the district like a hot brass.

I,personally,think it's thee only way we can stop this.
Also this can't be a volunteer position cause someone will always have an interruption to their schedule .

I hope we could implement this in enough districts to make it happen everywhere.

 

[TapRackNGo]

I'm available Mondays or Fridays...

 

[chunkeymonkey66]

This is a sane and rational response if I have ever heard one. It might fly if it's done right. I would hope that it would someday include responsible armed citizen's too. I have been through many backgrounds checks in my life. Havent been found crazy yet One kid left in college (Go Huskies!!) Anyway...I would do anything to protect the little ones. Probably won't happen but I would volunteer to help anyway I could. This stuff has to be stopped...period.

There is no law that could be enacted that would stop this insane behaviour.

 

[hermannr]

But the real problem here will be with the insurance companies. If the armed people at the school aren't at least "armed guard" trained,they will drop the district like a hot brass.

.

Schools and other public entities are insured through the state insurance pool...there is no "insurance company" involved.

 

[RVTECH]

Sometimes Burt is a joy kill. But then I watch his vid links and wonder if he doesn't have a good point.

I think he does have a good point given I believe the average liberal seems to operate on the basic premise it is better to be a victim than to be saved whether by your own intention or that if a another. If this were not the case then liberals would express more of a pro active stance with their own security which now is completely lacking. However it would be interesting to see this implemented, even on a limited basis, to see if it has any effect. The biggest hurdle I think would be in the selection and training aspect for the potential volunteers. This would have to be taken very seriously as the mission I think would be more difficult than most would imagine. If secrecy of the the person was the basic plan then the selectee would have to be someone who would be able to operate under complete anonymity, almost to the level of creating the illusion they were an employee in some department. This would require someone who is not a local resident so there would never be the possibility of being recognized. Also they would probably be required to attain some level of security certification (if not LE) to operate legally given the previous post about insurance issues. A test program would be interesting to see but it would take dedicated, trained personnel with a medium to long-term obligation as opposed to just taking 'volunteers'.

 

[hermannr]

Liberals today are like the Amish in the Revolutionary and Civil wars..."protect us, becase we refuse to protect ourselves."

 

[Shaolo]

It should be firearms, it should be firearms to the level that may be encountered in a confrontation...just the same reasoning used for the justification the cops having an M4 in their patrol car.

There is only one thing that I think the OP is missing. You should not hide the fact there are armed personell at the school, you should advertize it. I would bet dollars to donuts if the Newton shooter KNEW there were properly armed responders (school staff), he would have never attempted this activity.

The deterent effect cannot and should not be minimized.

Completely agree.

 

[coop44]

On the surface, this seems like a logical argument. Then there is the application of statistical analysis that seems to point to flaws in the logic.

Reagan held office between 24 – 32 years ago. According to the CDC, the median age of the people affected by the "mental health reclassification" was between 18 and 35 years of age. Assuming that ALL patients were put "onto the streets" the last day of Reagan's administration that would put the average age of those effected between 42 and 59 years of age today. Also according to the CDC and HHS the life expectancy of chronically homeless ranges between 42 and 62 years of age (depending on which study you believe). There is no specific data for mentally ill, chronically homeless so we'll just use these as general numbers, again based on the "onto the streets" suggestion. There is also no actual data that can say for certain how many people were put "onto the streets" and not provided alternate care through other means (churches, community organizations, private care, etc.). Nobody thought that data was important enough to track and that is sad all by itself.

With very few exceptions, the mass casualty incidents we have all witnessed in the last decade were perpetrated by individuals that were between 16 and 28 years old. Some of these folks weren't even alive when Reagan was in office. If the many administrations that have held federal, state and local offices since then have not corrected the "problem" it is somewhat disingenuous to put that much blame at the feet of a long gone WH administration. Additionally, I can't recall any incident that specifically dealt with a mentally ill homeless person who was the primary actor. I'm not sure how someone who is a member of a family, has access to healthcare in many cases through their parents and choses to stop of self medicate can qualify as put "onto the streets".

Do we have a problem with sociopathic and psychotic behavior in certain individuals in the populace? Hell yes! Nobody is disputing that. How we deal with this will require reasoned thought and a critical analysis of the data, preferably from this decade.

maybe I wasn't clear, the POLICIES that STARTED with the reagan administration have continued to this day. ANYONE not deemed an immediate threat is put back onto the streets from then to this day.

And further I also lay many of our current financial woes upon the Reagan administration. By removing many of the limitations on investment banks and savings and loans, increasing defense spending to make his supporters rich. Don't get me started.

the only thing worse than Reagan is the last Bush.

 

[soulrider]

I think the "volunteer" thing applies ONLY to teachers and personnel who are employed at the school. Which as someone pointed out many teachers have a concealed license already. I know a couple, and they are military trained as well. which I think would be the best choices, They go about their day teaching classes all while armed. And only a select few know who they are, but we know they are TRAINED to handle the situation... But then again there are many other things that need to be addressed in this plan. I feel we should take the model from the schools in Texas and the new NRA model they are working on, take the best from those and make our schools, malls, movie theaters, EVERYWHERE safer and less of a target for disturbed people to act out upon.

 

[Vantage]

There is only one thing that I think the OP is missing. You should not hide the fact there are armed personell at the school, you should advertize it. I would bet dollars to donuts if the Newton shooter KNEW there were properly armed responders (school staff), he would have never attempted this activity.

The deterent effect cannot and should not be minimized.

Exactly!!

I keep hearing that if you had a cop at the door then he'd be the first one shot and then the murderer could just continue on as usual.

This is such crap.

1.) A uniformed armed presence is most likely going to cause a shooter to pick a different target to begin with. Just like The Club on steering wheels, it's a deterrent.

2.) The cop is not going to just stand there and wait to be shot. In the Sandy Hook Shooting he had to shoot through the door to get in. The officer would have heard the shots and had to time to respond before he could have even gotten in the building.

3.) Even if the cop was the first one to be shot. This is not hollywood. Officers wear vests and even if they didn't.. people <broken link removed> all the time.

But I agree with hermannr, they should be visible to show that they're present.

And it wouldn't cost all that much. The mayor in Fall River, MA has already done this:

After the Sandy Hook shooting, Mayor William A. Flanagan of Fall River decided to station armed police officers at each of the city's 16 schools, an effort that he said costs $2,500 per day, or about $165 per school.

Besides... my kids love anyone in uniform. Cops, Fireman, Soldiers, EMS... they are in awe of all of them. They'd love to have one hanging around the school.. knowing that s/he's there to protect them.