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I went to Tacoma today to one of the local gun shops to perform a handgun transfer (as the buyer - I have my CPL). After filling ATF Form 4473 - Firearms Transaction Record the store clerk rejected the form, telling me he could not transfer the handgun. He would give no explanation to me in regard as to why my form was rejected. I asked some questions but got nowhere, so let me ask some questions here...

1- Has something changed in WA State this year in regard to handgun transfers?

I took a copy of Form 4473 with me. After leaving the store I combed through it, and realized I had missed filling one checkbox. Whereas in the past any and all clerks have been helpful, this one wasn't.

FYI, the section I missed filling was box 10.a - Ethnicity. Next to it is box 10.b - Race.

Here's the kick in the pants that is confusing...in section 10.b it states Race (In addition to ethnicity, select one or more race in 10.b. Both 10.a. and 10.b. must be answered). IF you check "Hispanic or Latino" in section 10.a, there is no option for "Hispanic or Latino" in section 10.b.

How can one answer both 10.a and 10.b correctly?... Are race and ethnicity different?

IF you were/are Hispanic or Latino, how do you answer 10.a AND 10.b when the only choices in 10.b are...

American Indian or Alaska Native
Asian
Black or African American
Hative Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander
White

Finally, what I'd really like to know is whether that clerk was just yanking my chain, or whether there's some new "law" or "rule" that had him handcuffed.

Can I expect to be asked this same thing when I try this again tomorrow at another, different gun shop?

If it is some new enacted 'policy" that I have yet to learn, then it's forgivable. But if if that was store policy then that shop just lost any and all future business from me...
If you want to come to Onalaska, WA. to "We The People" Armory I will do it . Transfers are $30.00
 
When you said you had an issue with a gun store in Tacoma, I immediately wondered if it was Bulls Eye...
It's really sad when a shop starts to get a reputation like that. Where other shooters immediately think "problem" when the place which has been around for many decades is mentioned. Normally I would not care as in if the owner runs himself out of business acting like a fool, too bad. This place is cheap to shoot so I will really miss it if he manages to end up having to shut down. He did get screwed big time with that gun the DC Sniper used but again that was clearly his fault. No reason to keep hiring people who keep making customers mad. :(
 
Okay, today I went to Don's Estate Jewelry and Coin - Pawn Shop (isn't THAT a mouthful! :) ) in Federal Way. Everything went smoothly and without a single problem. I highly doubt I'll ever give Bulls Eye any more of my business.
 
he probly entered your info incorrectly into the system
If you were buying a long gun NICS is instant unless you entr it worng you will get a deny
 
It never got that far. The guy took a look at my filing and immediately rejected it without even telling me why. He never entered anything into the system. It was a short gun, not a long one.
 
Okay, today I went to Don's Estate Jewelry and Coin - Pawn Shop (isn't THAT a mouthful! :) ) in Federal Way. Everything went smoothly and without a single problem. I highly doubt I'll ever give Bulls Eye any more of my business.
Well I am glad you got your transfer. I am also glad you put out the info both good and bad. I like to see other shooters say they had a good experience as well as they had a bad. So often only the times that do not go well make noise. Those who do customers right need to be made known too. They deserve to others come to them.
As for Brian, I know you have others run this store for you now. If you read this forum? I hope maybe you will talk to the guy who runs the shop for you? Ask is it really worth running off customers? I do like the place and would like to keep going there for a couple more decades :cool:
 
Okay, today I went to Don's Estate Jewelry and Coin - Pawn Shop (isn't THAT a mouthful! :) ) in Federal Way. Everything went smoothly and without a single problem. I highly doubt I'll ever give Bulls Eye any more of my business.

I got on a first name basis with the people who worked there before 1639 went into effect. That's a great place for transfers, and they act like they actually appreciate your business too! I recommend everyone in the area go there if they don't have a preferred transfer location already.
 
I don't think you understand what the guy is after here. In this state now you can't just sell a gun. You have to have an FFL holder put the gun in the buyers name. What we are calling transfer. It has to be done at a Federal License holder (FFL) so its as if the buyer is buying the gun from a dealer instead of another person. In other words no more what we used to call face to face sales sadly.

I hope you don't mind me nit-picking. Your info is correct, of course, in a practical sense. I'm not questioning anything you said, just clarifying it for some that may not understand exactly how the system works.

My only comment is regarding the FFL "putting the gun in the buyer's name". Most of us know what you mean, but there are some people who are under the impression that each gun is literally registered in the owner's name, and that's not the case.

Universal background checks are, in my opinion, de-facto registration because they keep a record of what gun was transferred to who. If it was a real, literal registration then you would have to change registration when transferring to even a relative, register when moving into the state with guns, have them removed from the registry when moving away, register all guns owned before the law took effect, and you'd be in trouble for having an unregistered gun. None of those things are true (yet). The UBC simply provides a record that you acquired the firearm, but it's not registered in your name in any legal way.

The gun control crowd has been dreaming about full registration for generations. That is their goal, as registration means control. We all know that universal background checks are more about de-facto registration than they ever were about background checks, but they're not quite there on actual registration.
 
I hope you don't mind me nit-picking. Your info is correct, of course, in a practical sense. I'm not questioning anything you said, just clarifying it for some that may not understand exactly how the system works.

My only comment is regarding the FFL "putting the gun in the buyer's name". Most of us know what you mean, but there are some people who are under the impression that each gun is literally registered in the owner's name, and that's not the case.

Universal background checks are, in my opinion, de-facto registration because they keep a record of what gun was transferred to who. If it was a real, literal registration then you would have to change registration when transferring to even a relative, register when moving into the state with guns, have them removed from the registry when moving away, register all guns owned before the law took effect, and you'd be in trouble for having an unregistered gun. None of those things are true (yet). The UBC simply provides a record that you acquired the firearm, but it's not registered in your name in any legal way.

The gun control crowd has been dreaming about full registration for generations. That is their goal, as registration means control. We all know that universal background checks are more about de-facto registration than they ever were about background checks, but they're not quite there on actual registration.
Yep no problem, I "think" what the poster I was responding to meant was something I had heard of when we could sell face to face. I never did, so not sure what the hell happened but, I did work with a guy who bought a gun from my Dad when he was leaving. He tells me next time I see him that he went to the Sheriffs Dept. to "register the sale to him". I was confused and told him we do not have gun registration here. He insisted the people there took his info and the gun serial # and in his mind registered it to him. So I have to guess the Police would take your info and put it into some data base somewhere? Maybe to make people "feel better"? Who the hell knows. In any case I was guessing by the comment the poster made that had to be what he thought, which of course with the laws in WA now you can not do. No police department can do what needs to be done by an FFL holder. So I was ham handed trying to explain it to someone I have to assume had no idea this law had changed in this state when he joined this group. I get a lot of people here hot under the collar when I say the problems we have are gun owners who will not vote. This law is another example of what I mean. Gun owners still do not know this law went in. They think you can still just buy a gun from someone else here. How many years ago did this law go in in WA and gun owners still have no idea it is on the books here. :s0054:
 
By the way, I asked the manager (owner?) at Don's Pawn Shop if he would honor the ten day rule. He replied "Yeah, as long as you don't appear to be some gang-banger wearing tattoo's on your neck and all over your body" (I'm a clean-cut and clean-shaven 64 year old fart, nor do I have any tattoo's...so I guess I passed that particular test.)
 
How can one answer both 10.a and 10.b correctly?... Are race and ethnicity different?

Yeah, race and ethnicity are most definitely different. Latino folks are an ethnticity and can identify as any race or several races. Lots of latino folks are mestizo (euro and native), Black, you name it. Latino or "hispanic" just means we are from cultures that were colonized by Spain.

On the BGC I mark latino and white. On other forums I will typically mark "two or more races."
 
It never got that far. The guy took a look at my filing and immediately rejected it without even telling me why. He never entered anything into the system. It was a short gun, not a long one.
I suppose if your name was Adolph Hitler, Hannibal Lecter or Charles Manson I might could understand, but otherwise just makes no sense why a guy that works for a firearms business would just tell you to walk without an explanation.
 

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