Washington Denied handgun transfer in WA today - Can somebody inform me why this happened?

CzechOne

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I went to Tacoma today to one of the local gun shops to perform a handgun transfer (as the buyer - I have my CPL). After filling ATF Form 4473 - Firearms Transaction Record the store clerk rejected the form, telling me he could not transfer the handgun. He would give no explanation to me in regard as to why my form was rejected. I asked some questions but got nowhere, so let me ask some questions here...

1- Has something changed in WA State this year in regard to handgun transfers?

I took a copy of Form 4473 with me. After leaving the store I combed through it, and realized I had missed filling one checkbox. Whereas in the past any and all clerks have been helpful, this one wasn't.

FYI, the section I missed filling was box 10.a - Ethnicity. Next to it is box 10.b - Race.

Here's the kick in the pants that is confusing...in section 10.b it states Race (In addition to ethnicity, select one or more race in 10.b. Both 10.a. and 10.b. must be answered). IF you check "Hispanic or Latino" in section 10.a, there is no option for "Hispanic or Latino" in section 10.b.

How can one answer both 10.a and 10.b correctly?... Are race and ethnicity different?

IF you were/are Hispanic or Latino, how do you answer 10.a AND 10.b when the only choices in 10.b are...

American Indian or Alaska Native
Asian
Black or African American
Hative Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander
White

Finally, what I'd really like to know is whether that clerk was just yanking my chain, or whether there's some new "law" or "rule" that had him handcuffed.

Can I expect to be asked this same thing when I try this again tomorrow at another, different gun shop?

If it is some new enacted 'policy" that I have yet to learn, then it's forgivable. But if if that was store policy then that shop just lost any and all future business from me...
 

Alexx1401

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I went to Tacoma today to one of the local gun shops to perform a handgun transfer (as the buyer - I have my CPL). After filling ATF Form 4473 - Firearms Transaction Record the store clerk rejected the form, telling me he could not transfer the handgun. He would give no explanation to me in regard as to why my form was rejected. I asked some questions but got nowhere, so let me ask some questions here...

1- Has something changed in WA State this year in regard to handgun transfers?

I took a copy of Form 4473 with me. After leaving the store I combed through it, and realized I had missed filling one checkbox. Whereas in the past any and all clerks have been helpful, this one wasn't.

FYI, the section I missed filling was box 10.a - Ethnicity. Next to it is box 10.b - Race.

Here's the kick in the pants that is confusing...in section 10.b it states Race (In addition to ethnicity, select one or more race in 10.b. Both 10.a. and 10.b. must be answered). IF you check "Hispanic or Latino" in section 10.a, there is no option for "Hispanic or Latino" in section 10.b.

How can one answer both 10.a and 10.b correctly?... Are race and ethnicity different?

IF you were/are Hispanic or Latino, how do you answer 10.a AND 10.b when the only choices in 10.b are...

American Indian or Alaska Native
Asian
Black or African American
Hative Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander
White

Finally, what I'd really like to know is whether that clerk was just yanking my chain, or whether there's some new "law" or "rule" that had him handcuffed.

Can I expect to be asked this same thing when I try this again tomorrow at another, different gun shop?

If it is some new enacted 'policy" that I have yet to learn, then it's forgivable. But if if that was store policy then that shop just lost any and all future business from me...
Well if he really just would not tell you what you needed sounds like time to try a different dealer. Also what store was this?
 
OP
CzechOne

CzechOne

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Bulls Eye Shooter Supply. I've made several transfers there through the years, and never had any problems until today. I'm going to go through the form again, just to see if I missed anything else, or messed up elsewhere. It was kind of weird how stone cold that guy went. I couldn't get a single clue from him in regard to any error that may have been made on my behalf. It was wasted time and energy and effort on both the seller's part and mine.
 

oremike

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I miss spelled my name today and they voided my paper work showed me what I did wrong and had me redo a new form. So I don't know if you'd have to do a new form for a missed check box or not. Also doesn't Washington have some mandatory hold time for handguns, maybe that was the issue???
 

Red98422

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Bulls Eye Shooter Supply. I've made several transfers there through the years, and never had any problems until today. I'm going to go through the form again, just to see if I missed anything else, or messed up elsewhere. It was kind of weird how stone cold that guy went. I couldn't get a single clue from him in regard to any error that may have been made on my behalf. It was wasted time and energy and effort on both the seller's part and mine.
they have been less than helpful to me in the past I’m not a big fan personally, always seems as if I’m inconveniencing them.

that said you have Mary’s pistols not far from there and if you don’t mind a bit of a drive for no BS service there is South Sound Guns in Lacey. They also follow the law in regards to release of the pistol after 10 day...instead of just holding onto it for and indefinite timeframe
 

gmerkt

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Based on the information provided by OP, it sounds unreasonable. He left the store with no clue as to why the 4473 was rejected. I've missed boxes on those forms out of pure carelessness several times. The employee always simply tells me about the omission, I fix it, and away we go. If the employee was going to be an anus and not let the OP fix it, then he should've at least had the courtesy to explain what the problem was and why he wouldn't take the form.

Are race and ethnicity different?
As I understand it, for purposes of the 4473, checking the Hispanic box is a way to separate a culture from a race. It seems like a back-door kind of way to split what they officially consider "white." But there are blue-eyed Hispanics from Asturias in Spain who would be outside this logic. As well as Argentinians and Chileans whose heritage is Irish or English. For just a couple of examples. Times and customs change; there was a time in the past in the US when Greeks and Italians were not considered white. I'm thinking that in the era we are in now, those questions may not linger too much longer on the form. Time will tell.
 

Alexx1401

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Good to know that about Mary's. Her place has popped up numerous times when I've done web searches. I've just never been to her shop.
I shoot there weekly and sadly over the decades I have been going there they have gone through some real winners. Most of the staff have been great but, there have been a few real shall we say less than stellar hires. Always assumed the owner does not pay much as there seems to be a lot of turnover. Now Mary's I have dealt with since they opened. They have been great to me and the Wife. So I would try them. Or if you end up and the Bulls Eye again ask for whoever is in charge of the shop that day. I have to hope the guy you dealt with is just some low wage worker. Damn shame they would act like that with all the crap they have been through.
 

Alexx1401

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they have been less than helpful to me in the past I’m not a big fan personally, always seems as if I’m inconveniencing them.

that said you have Mary’s pistols not far from there and if you don’t mind a bit of a drive for no BS service there is South Sound Guns in Lacey. They also follow the law in regards to release of the pistol after 10 day...instead of just holding onto it for and indefinite timeframe
Mary's has done that for me, let the gun walk after the 10 BUT, not sure if they just do this for everyone. I love the store but again if someone is new to this since the state dropped the ball and we all have to wait I would ask first. We have been buying from them since they opened so they do things for us they "may" not do for just anyone they do not know. Like when we order a gun they do not take our money until the gun walks. Again I do not know if they would for someone they did not know so I would still ask first. They are great people to deal with though. If that new tax goes in they said they are done, at least in the city. If the city does force them to shut down I hope they re open out in the county someplace.
 
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I went to Tacoma today to one of the local gun shops to perform a handgun transfer (as the buyer - I have my CPL). After filling ATF Form 4473 - Firearms Transaction Record the store clerk rejected the form, telling me he could not transfer the handgun. He would give no explanation to me in regard as to why my form was rejected. I asked some questions but got nowhere, so let me ask some questions here...

1- Has something changed in WA State this year in regard to handgun transfers?

I took a copy of Form 4473 with me. After leaving the store I combed through it, and realized I had missed filling one checkbox. Whereas in the past any and all clerks have been helpful, this one wasn't.

FYI, the section I missed filling was box 10.a - Ethnicity. Next to it is box 10.b - Race.

Here's the kick in the pants that is confusing...in section 10.b it states Race (In addition to ethnicity, select one or more race in 10.b. Both 10.a. and 10.b. must be answered). IF you check "Hispanic or Latino" in section 10.a, there is no option for "Hispanic or Latino" in section 10.b.

How can one answer both 10.a and 10.b correctly?... Are race and ethnicity different?

IF you were/are Hispanic or Latino, how do you answer 10.a AND 10.b when the only choices in 10.b are...

American Indian or Alaska Native
Asian
Black or African American
Hative Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander
White

Finally, what I'd really like to know is whether that clerk was just yanking my chain, or whether there's some new "law" or "rule" that had him handcuffed.

Can I expect to be asked this same thing when I try this again tomorrow at another, different gun shop?

If it is some new enacted 'policy" that I have yet to learn, then it's forgivable. But if if that was store policy then that shop just lost any and all future business from me...
Ive overlooked the same box .The 10a you either id as hispanic or not .that is a recent addition in the past 5 years or so
I have had the dealer come to me and fix it or start over but never had 1 send me away. As busy as they have been they might not enjoy doing person to person transfers
 
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I went to Tacoma today to one of the local gun shops to perform a handgun transfer (as the buyer - I have my CPL). After filling ATF Form 4473 - Firearms Transaction Record the store clerk rejected the form, telling me he could not transfer the handgun. He would give no explanation to me in regard as to why my form was rejected. I asked some questions but got nowhere, so let me ask some questions here...

1- Has something changed in WA State this year in regard to handgun transfers?

I took a copy of Form 4473 with me. After leaving the store I combed through it, and realized I had missed filling one checkbox. Whereas in the past any and all clerks have been helpful, this one wasn't.

FYI, the section I missed filling was box 10.a - Ethnicity. Next to it is box 10.b - Race.

Here's the kick in the pants that is confusing...in section 10.b it states Race (In addition to ethnicity, select one or more race in 10.b. Both 10.a. and 10.b. must be answered). IF you check "Hispanic or Latino" in section 10.a, there is no option for "Hispanic or Latino" in section 10.b.

How can one answer both 10.a and 10.b correctly?... Are race and ethnicity different?

IF you were/are Hispanic or Latino, how do you answer 10.a AND 10.b when the only choices in 10.b are...

American Indian or Alaska Native
Asian
Black or African American
Hative Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander
White

Finally, what I'd really like to know is whether that clerk was just yanking my chain, or whether there's some new "law" or "rule" that had him handcuffed.

Can I expect to be asked this same thing when I try this again tomorrow at another, different gun shop?

If it is some new enacted 'policy" that I have yet to learn, then it's forgivable. But if if that was store policy then that shop just lost any and all future business from me...
Usually the sheriffs office will do a transfer .
 
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Way back close to 30 years ago I got a denied and the store in question was being a dick about it, I actually lost 30$ or 40$ they collected money up front before the BGC. This is a dick move as well, but I was new to washington state at the time. I simply went to anther gun store and everything has been fine. Actually over the many many gun purchases since then I've never been denied or delayed. Which tells me more than likely the gun store made a mistake. I've never purchased anything from that store since 1993 for that reason. They should at least try to tell you why or offered you paperwork telling you how to get the answer to your question.
 

Alexx1401

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Usually the sheriffs office will do a transfer .
I don't think you understand what the guy is after here. In this state now you can't just sell a gun. You have to have an FFL holder put the gun in the buyers name. What we are calling transfer. It has to be done at a Federal License holder (FFL) so its as if the buyer is buying the gun from a dealer instead of another person. In other words no more what we used to call face to face sales sadly.
 

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