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Denied CHL - Looking for feedback on lawyers' recommendation

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by pdxRealtor, Aug 8, 2015.

  1. pdxRealtor

    pdxRealtor East Gresham/Troutdale Active Member

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    I was just denied my CHL under the 'willies' clause (ORS 166.293(2)). It was stated my past pattern of behavior blah blah blah and therefor your permit is declined.

    First a bit of info on my situation -
    I've not had any arrests or convictions for over 10 years, and all the arrests and convictions I've had prior to that were in the preceding 10 year period of time. Most of that preceding 10 year period of time I was in my teens/early 20s. Only one of my arrests or convictions could be considered violent. I received an assault 4 after a scuffle with a bouncer. Let's just say I've learned that bouncers and flight attendants have way more authority than some might think, and lots of them tend to abuse it. Regardless, you listen to them or pay the price. No mental health issues, no other disqualifies under the statute. Not even close.

    What I'm looking for is a bit of direction on from others who have been in this situation or close to someone who has been in this situation.

    I've contacted three lawyers. Two come highly recommended by OFF and the other has been turned up as an excellent choice on this forum and others.

    Two lawyers suggested I get all my convictions/arrests expunged. One lawyer suggested we go to court under the appeals process and argue that there is no basis for the denial. It does kind of make sense. I mean, if I can get all of these arrests and convictions expunged (which the law says I can) why deny me the CHL?

    Traffic crimes cannot be expunged. So I'd be stuck with two DUIIs and I think three driving while suspended. But I'm told by the lawyers that these would not in any way prevent me from getting a CHL.

    I've been a law abiding, stand up citizen for over 10 years. I own houses, cars, have licenses with the state that require strict criminal background checks and reviews, etc etc.

    So any advice on which way I might go with the lawyers? Expunge everything except the driving crimes which can't be expunged, or go for the appeals process?

    The following info added 8/28/2015

    After denial of my CHL application in Multnomah County I immediately (along with the actions listed above) obtained my L.E.D.S. report from the state police so that I could see, and explain to attorneys, exactly what Multnomah County saw. After all- this info was the basis for my CHL application denial in Multnomah County.

    I started calling the attorney's I initially contacted to discuss the next best step. The first attorney I spoke with for a second time went over my L.E.D.S. report with me. He was confident an appeal would be successful. So confident he had a hard time understanding why my CHL application was denied in the first place. He asked if I owned property in another county. I do, Washington County. He then suggest I got out to Washington County and apply. Told me who to talk to and exactly how to proceed.

    I contacted Washington County, applied, and was given my CHL the day of my appointment.

    So, the solution in my case was easy because I own property in Washington County and you are allowed to apply in any county you own property even if you don't reside in that county.

    The people at Washington county were great to talk with. Very logical unlike what I experienced in Multnomah County. If they deny your CHL application in Washington County they will most likely not loose if you decide to appeal their decision.


    I hope this information is helpful to others in the future. Here are the resources I used.


    Oregon State Police to obtain L.E.D.S. report (criminal record)
    - http://www.oregon.gov/osp/ID/docs/copy_own_or_record.pdf


    Attorneys -
    Short Law Group (Jason Short)- http://www.shortlawgroup.com/
    Jaske Law Group- http://www.angelilaw.com/
    James E. Leuenberger (attorney) - http://www.fights4rights.com/
    Alex Kincaid (attorney) http://alexkincaid.com/hfdt/

    Organizations-
    http://www.oregonfirearms.org/
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2015
  2. rick benjamin

    rick benjamin USA, Or, Damascus Secure the drama Silver Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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  3. pdxRealtor

    pdxRealtor East Gresham/Troutdale Active Member

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    Thanks, but I've found lawyers. Three of them. Two are telling me one thing, one is telling me another.

    I think I should have made the first post a bit shorter. :(

    I'm looking for other past experiences that might help me make a decision on which way to go.
     
  4. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    OK you talked about bouncers and flight attendants and you had violent in your post
    Maybe the 'no mental health issues' part is kinda off?
    Reading just half of your post and I can see why they would deny you
    Good luck with the anger issues
     
    Modeler and Gunner3456 like this.
  5. pdxRealtor

    pdxRealtor East Gresham/Troutdale Active Member

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    Thanks for you input. That was very helpful.

    Making smart remarks like that is exactly what gets you in trouble with flight attendants and bouncers. It might be wise of you to make comments like that very selectively.
     
    cascadianliberty2012 likes this.
  6. Dyjital

    Dyjital Albany, Ore Flavorite Member Bronze Supporter

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    Ok.. This may or may not help.

    Friend of mine was in same boat from something that happened years ago and wasn't cleared up in court. He chose the route to clear everything THEN go back and get CHL. (Referencing expungement then re-applying).

    The two routes should be the same with regards to CHL.

    Only the expungement will help you later down the road if the issue pops up again.

    He called me the other day (maybe Tuesday) and was excited because he was set and there were no hang ups per the CHL issuer at the local sheriff office this time and license should be on its way by now.


    On another note: SB525? May have killed your CHL dreams.

    Read OFF's review and the bill text:
    http://www.oregonfirearms.org/2015-gun-bills
     
    pdxRealtor likes this.
  7. pdxRealtor

    pdxRealtor East Gresham/Troutdale Active Member

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    Thanks - it does help.

    I'm all for clearing the record up once and for all as your friend did but then there is the time issue I'm also contemplating.

    One attorney mentioned that after the expunging the records the next step would be ORS 166.274, Relief from prohibition against possessing or purchasing firearm.

    It's roughly the same cost to expunge and restore as it is to appeal. But, it's quicker to appeal and expunge later.

    I have my L.E.D.S. report on the way and at this point I'm so far into it I think either route I go I will expunge the stuff that is allowed to be expunged.

    All things being equal, having the CHL quicker (appeals process) vs. slower (expunge process) is appealing.

    I would hate to spend the 1k -1500.00 on the appeal and lose though.

     
  8. Dyjital

    Dyjital Albany, Ore Flavorite Member Bronze Supporter

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    I understand the cost issue. I was facing a bogus restraining order that ended up costing me 2500 just to have her ask for it to be dropped 5 minutes before trial.

    Weighing it out on what will be the best in the long run and what you can live with (the choice) is the only way to do it.

    So with the appeals afterward, the extra $50 (that's what they charged him the second time around because they already had his fingerprints on file) was nothing. His route really was: 1) clear up name 2) re-apply. It was past the appeals time but really $50 is nothing at the end of a $1500+ attorney bill.... :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

    best of luck, and feel free to keep the thread posted on updates so anyone afterward can know what to expect. (if you choose to)
     
  9. NSDQ

    NSDQ NW Portland, Oregon Active Member

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    An expungement will basically test to see if there is a denial. There is a chance that based on the conviction of assault they may not allow you to expunge therefore requiring you to appeal the case. Expungement might only be a 3 month process versus an appeal which could take over a year. Either way a felony conviction is still a felony conviction. As of now its a felony for you to be in possession of a firearm based on federal law so until you're permitted to even own a firearm the very notion that you can conceal one is a secondary issue.
     
  10. Hawaiian

    Hawaiian Tigard Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Ask an atty if it is because you have TWO prior DUIIs. One is OK, but I am not sure about TWO.
    DUIIs can not be expunged.
     
  11. pdxRealtor

    pdxRealtor East Gresham/Troutdale Active Member

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    Thanks, again. But.... I do not have any domestic violence convictions. My assault 4 was against a bouncer in bar, over 10 years ago. So, thankfully that should not be a road block.
     
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  12. pdxRealtor

    pdxRealtor East Gresham/Troutdale Active Member

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    Yes- I think a call to one more attorney and maybe even re-querying the three I've spoken too again would be a good idea.

    I'm no real hurry to carry a majority of the time. I do like late night walks (1am late night) with my dogs, and when I make a late night run to the corner store type situations. The only other real benefit I'd rather not wait for is not having to wade through some of the other rules that a CHL is exempt from.

    I will update throughout and the outcome. I have this little pet peeve about open ended forum posts. Not just here or with gun forums, but all forums. I get excited as I'm reading about exactly my issue for seven pages only to find out the post was completely abandoned. LOL....
     
    Dyjital likes this.
  13. pdxRealtor

    pdxRealtor East Gresham/Troutdale Active Member

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    I do not have any felony convictions. I am allowed to own and purchase firearms. Most recent purchase was about two weeks ago.

    Are you stating the appeals process for the CHL denial could be up to a year? First I've heard of that.
     
  14. pdxRealtor

    pdxRealtor East Gresham/Troutdale Active Member

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    I will certainly ask all the attorneys when I contact them again. If driving while suspended and DUII from ~15 years ago is a sinker, well I'm sunk.
     
  15. Juggernaut

    Juggernaut Ory'gun Active Member

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    As surprising as it may be, you get 3 shots in a 10 year period before a DUII gets kicked up to a C Felony. Provided of course no other offenses were being committed at the same time. ORS 813.010 (5)

    Misdemeanors from at least 4 years ago have no direct bearing on the CHL application. So even as bad as your past record appears, no single charge you've described would prevent you from being approved. However, the Sheriff is allowed to make decisions based off a "past pattern of behavior" ORS 166.293 (2).

    Appeal the Sheriffs decision, make your case and get a "quick" decision from a judge. Getting your record expunged is a well and good, but honestly it's just lawyers looking to keep you on the hook for a payday.
     
  16. rick benjamin

    rick benjamin USA, Or, Damascus Secure the drama Silver Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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    The CCW approval folks have your record before them and disapproved you.
    Now, here you are making veiled threats against a member and admitting to mixing it with a bouncer and attracting negative attention on a passenger aircraft, 10 years after your last addition to your record. I also suspect you haven't dealt with your anger-self issue.
    You ask us for our links but don't share your resources. What's with that?
     
  17. DuneHopper

    DuneHopper Douglas County. Well-Known Member

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    Has this affected your FFL purchases? I am trying to analyze the whole picture.
    :s0101:
     
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  18. Ben Beckerich

    Ben Beckerich NW Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I think you should drop it. You sound like a hothead. The sheriff has the authority to do what he did for sake of hotheads..... so sounds like it's working as intended.

    Not trying to be a dick, just calling it for what it is. Sorry mate - some people aren't for this.
     
  19. tdb59

    tdb59 OR Active Member

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    So you are all for denying one's right to self defense with common tools ?

    If the OP was truly a " hothead " he most likely would not attempt to go through the prescribed process.

    You may not be trying, but you certainly are succeeding.
     
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  20. pdxRealtor

    pdxRealtor East Gresham/Troutdale Active Member

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    Seriously??? That was far from a threat. That was a friendly reminder that comments just like that are the exact same type of comments that got me into trouble with Hot headed bouncers and flight attendants.

    I'm a joker. I always have a smile on my face and I'm always cracking jokes. I've learned some lessons that there are some people you just don't crack jokes with. That's far far far from an anger issue.

    I'm not sure what links you think I've asked for. I've asked for none. I'm also not sure what resources you'd like me to share. I asked for an opinion on my situation which is explain and post one.
     
    Certaindeaf likes this.