Deleting post is the classifieds may be getting a bit excessive..???

[Trlsmn]

PM sent hntn&fshn. Where this thread went had nothing to do with you or your concerns and wasn't fair to you.

 

[Bhowe]

About the line "that really is a beautiful rifle"... How about that being a starting line of dialect? How many times have I or anyone else, stooped by a gun shop to just "look around" and started to talk with the owner or sales man, made that same commit and ended up walking out of the store with it on accident?

Maybe the seller would reply with his interpretation of why it is in deed a "beautiful gun" and why he likes it but has to sell it?

I joined up with this forum for that reason. If I wanted to just look at guns and not speak/have dialect back and forth, there is always other on line sites (i.e. we all know them)...

What makes this site great is the forum ability and the people in them? Why cut us off at our knees when there is no reason.

Huge I.E. here: I positive post speaking about the firearm VS. a HUGE negative post about the firearm, person or price!!!

I would curve the rules to keep the community a "community" and not just a website!

Post a message saying 'PM sent', then you can write until your fingers bleed in a PM. Likewise, if you post a question to a poster, and someone else thinks they can answer it, they can PM you. Consider that a third party giving info on a gun they have nold held in their hands, may not be 100% accurate, and could quite possibly hinder a sale.

Unlike the our great Mesiah leader and his health care reform, it is an option and a privlage to be a member of this site. Therefore, rules should be followed.

Not to say that it is not okay to question rules, however those rules are probably in place for a good reason. Think of it like the rules you would follow if it were a gun shop. You wouldn't load a gun you were looking at, or light up a cigarette if there was a sign telling you not to. For that matter, you would not even light a match or handle gun and ammo at the same time. They are rules in place for a good reason, even if you don't understand the reason.

 

[Bhowe]

Follow Link: http://www.northwestfirearms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29927 (unless he fixes it, which he does every time I call him out)

Does his post follow the rules which pertains the the purchase for the firearm... Needless to say, it was a "good" commit, it does not follow the rules... That might be "Hypocrisy"?

I think the guy got off easy. I will say that the comment by the mod in this ad should probably not have been made. To be fair, he should have deleted the ad, notified both parties involved, and either give warnings, infractions, or banned (depending on the severity and reaction from users), vs calling them out in public on it.

I try to treat people on here as if I were right in front of them, not over a computer. Because hey, some of the people that read my posts or discuss matters with, I may come face to face with later on. Talk about awkward if you were a jerk on some of your discussions with them.

 

[Bhowe]

Nice post by the way, I had one just like it!







Sorry, someone had to go there!

 

[drew]

From what I see the mods do a fine job. I have yet to see any hypocrisy on their part. I'll take it over the wild west anarchy that would result. I would hate to keep seeing the same ads on the first page of the classifieds.

I see this site as most communities(online and real) in that if you don't like the residents or the rules, you should either look to change them or move. I don't have a problem with either which speaks well of the board's management.

 

[ZeroRing]

I want to repeat here what I stated above and that is that this site has been "run" very well and I very much appreciate how the classified threads are kept free of unproductive posts. Personally, I think it is somewhat annoying when folks make offers in the thread rather than via PM's. I have also noted that some folks try to "influence" the sale by making personal opinions in another members classified thread - this also is a bit annoying and clutters up the thread. The moderators have done a great job in keeping this to a minimum. (now comes the "however" part ) However, I have noticed recently that some posts which are productive have been deleted maybe just a hair too quick. I know you guys have a tough job but I am just asking if you guys could be a bit more careful with the deleting process. Most sellers do a pretty good job with their ads but some need a little help from the members to elicit pertinent information.

Keep up the good work!

Sounds like it might have been a case of mistaken post deletion. Tough to know for sure without knowing which thread it was in.

That being said, ALL members are encouraged to use the "report" feature to report on any posts/threads that they feel the mods should take a look at.

We (mods) all see these reports and, where we as "individual" mods aren't sure when to lay the smack down on something, we discuss it together and go from there.

Sometimes, even when several of us agree on a particular matter, we can be shown the situation from a different angle by points brought up by yet another mod or even a members "report" on a posting.

The point is, we are all trying hard to keep this site fun and informative (for all of us) and when members "report" things that they have an issue with, we do pay attention.

That doesn't mean we will necessarily take the action you whiney little crybabies want though.

 

[SJS46]

I don't always agree with the mods but they do have a job to do and rules are rules. One comment can lead to another and pretty soon you have an add full of crapping like this one i had about a year ago, nobody deleted comments on it and here is what you get.

http://www.northwestfirearms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9870&highlight=camo+sks&page=2

 

[snew]

I would urge users to please read his link he pointed out that shows me doing my job as a mod.

The fact is my post is relevant. We do not allow talk of FTF cross state lines transactions so my post was 100% legitimate and when other members post the same thing their posts are not deleted either. Mods have a job to do and we do in accordance to our policy, so no, that is not hypocrisy.

The post is legitimate because it has to do with the sale of the gun.

I disagree. Your job as a mod would have been to delete the banter. Your post was nothing more than grandstanding.

Now do something about the "PM sent". It's nothing more than, Nice rifle."

 

[Trlsmn]

I disagree. Your job as a mod would have been to delete the banter. Your post was nothing more than grandstanding.

Now do something about the "PM sent". It's nothing more than, Nice rifle."

Actually I do that so other users will see it and not make the same mistake.

 

[The Duck]

Actually I do that so other users will see it and not make the same mistake.

Through the chaos comes reform...

We seem to be getting somewhere here: In my obscure personal view the rules are being implemented in such a way which does, on a level, degrade the members in public…

I understand the implementation and reasoning behind the rules, and always have. It is the caring out of the rules which I did and still do find “hypocrisy” in.

The moderators are able to post commits, which we have already discussed as being quality post, but still do not pertain directly the sale of said firearm. (i.e. the commit made in linked thread, do not move a sale forward). Instead the moderator treated publicly the member as a potential criminal instead of a person whom might be simply looking at the rifle on his way up north and if he so wished would have arranged to have a FFL transfer completed. If the moderators assumptions were true or not, no public criticism should have been given… (US THE PM SYSTEM AS SO SUGGESTED BEFORE)

For the endless commits of “Thread Moved” or “Moved”: This is simply a mass scale of moderators publicly displaying that a person did something wrong and makes it clear to any potential buyer of that fact. If we as a community (i.e. members) cannot speak about issues with moderators in a open forum, then why does the moderators endlessly post these commits showing what we “did wrong”. If we cannot publicly scrutinize the mods, why can we receive public scrutiny from them?

And yes, I am not just complaining here, but trying to make this site a better place: Instead of submitting its members to a public-cyber-slap-on-the-hand, how about using the PM system. Move the thread as required by administration rules and send out a PM explaining what took place (there is a sample PM):

Dear Member,

Your thread has been moved to the proper location per site rules. If you have any questions or need further assistance, feel free to contact myself or any forum moderator as needed.

Thanks for your time,
Northwest Firearms Administration

This is not being a softy or fufu… It is proper customer service which I believe Joey Link will understand which in turns creates more paying members…

There is zero legitimate reasons to make the commits “moved” in the thread. If a person makes a mistake, the pm’ed letter will insure that mistake will not take place again.

On a side note, I am getting a little tired of the “love it or live it” commits on this thread… That might work for someone who does not care, however I do care.

 

[ZachS]

I'm pretty sure that a vast majority of the active members here would categorically disagree with everything you've suggested in this thread.

 

[elsie]

I disagree. Your job as a mod would have been to delete the banter. Your post was nothing more than grandstanding.

Now do something about the "PM sent". It's nothing more than, Nice rifle."

When I put a "PM sent" in a classified thread, it is to establish when I made an offer if there is ever a question of when the offer was made and to let the poster know that I sent one (there have been cases of PMs not going through). If people start using sock puppets to put in that particular phrase to bump threads, I can see it being prohibited. But only if it appear to have been abused.


elsie

 

[Trlsmn]

Through the chaos comes reform...

We seem to be getting somewhere here: In my obscure personal view the rules are being implemented in such a way which does, on a level, degrade the members in public...

I understand the implementation and reasoning behind the rules, and always have. It is the caring out of the rules which I did and still do find "hypocrisy" in.

The moderators are able to post commits, which we have already discussed as being quality post, but still do not pertain directly the sale of said firearm. (i.e. the commit made in linked thread, do not move a sale forward). Instead the moderator treated publicly the member as a potential criminal instead of a person whom might be simply looking at the rifle on his way up north and if he so wished would have arranged to have a FFL transfer completed. If the moderators assumptions were true or not, no public criticism should have been given... (US THE PM SYSTEM AS SO SUGGESTED BEFORE)

For the endless commits of "Thread Moved" or "Moved": This is simply a mass scale of moderators publicly displaying that a person did something wrong and makes it clear to any potential buyer of that fact. If we as a community (i.e. members) cannot speak about issues with moderators in a open forum, then why does the moderators endlessly post these commits showing what we "did wrong". If we cannot publicly scrutinize the mods, why can we receive public scrutiny from them?

And yes, I am not just complaining here, but trying to make this site a better place: Instead of submitting its members to a public-cyber-slap-on-the-hand, how about using the PM system. Move the thread as required by administration rules and send out a PM explaining what took place (there is a sample PM):

Dear Member,

Your thread has been moved to the proper location per site rules. If you have any questions or need further assistance, feel free to contact myself or any forum moderator as needed.

Thanks for your time,
Northwest Firearms Administration

This is not being a softy or fufu... It is proper customer service which I believe Joey Link will understand which in turns creates more paying members...

There is zero legitimate reasons to make the commits "moved" in the thread. If a person makes a mistake, the pm'ed letter will insure that mistake will not take place again.

On a side note, I am getting a little tired of the "love it or live it" commits on this thread... That might work for someone who does not care, however I do care.

Your post clearly illustrates that you can publicly speak about a mod so I'm not seeing the bulk of what this post is complaining about.

What you cannot do is talk about an infraction in public nor can mods talk about a members infractions in public.

I don't see the problem with "Moved". What happens in a thread posted in the wrong location is people post in the thread that it is in the wrong location and people also report the thread, from there we move it and post "moved". The reasons for this are twofold, 1 it tells the next mod that comes along that it is done. The other reason and I seen this happen many times is that a person will post "wrong section" and then a mod will move it and not say anything, then a member will come along and read the post about the thread being in the wrong section and look up and see it is in the correct section and then he will make a post the the guy who posted "wrong section" is wrong, it's a vicious cycle.

 

[Trlsmn]

When I put a "PM sent" in a classified thread, it is to establish when I made an offer if there is ever a question of when the offer was made and to let the poster know that I sent one (there have been cases of PMs not going through). If people start using sock puppets to put in that particular phrase to bump threads, I can see it being prohibited. But only if it appear to have been abused.


elsie

We have no plans to end the "PM sent". It is proper and it is very much the practice at many forums. Sometimes messages get lost and it (sometimes) saves the inevitable "I posted first" fights about who spoke up for an item first.

 

[MarkSBG]

I appreciate that you want to make things better here, but I disagree with your points.

I understand the implementation and reasoning behind the rules, and always have. It is the caring out of the rules which I did and still do find “hypocrisy” in.

The moderators are able to post commits, which we have already discussed as being quality post, but still do not pertain directly the sale of said firearm. (i.e. the commit made in linked thread, do not move a sale forward). Instead the moderator treated publicly the member as a potential criminal instead of a person whom might be simply looking at the rifle on his way up north and if he so wished would have arranged to have a FFL transfer completed. If the moderators assumptions were true or not, no public criticism should have been given… (US THE PM SYSTEM AS SO SUGGESTED BEFORE)

Yes, the comments sometimes come across as criticism, but the intention is for other members to see the correction that is taking place so that they avoid it in the future. In the past, we have have handed out warnings and public notices for members to close their own ads to people who do not close their ads after selling their items. Giving out these warnings and leaving the message takes about 10 times longer than just closing it myself. In the past month or two, I (and the other mods) have gotten lazy and have just started closing them. The number of unclosed ads has significantly increased since we stopped doing public notices and warnings. I attribute this to the fact that members are not seeing the public notices.

When it comes to something as important as illegal transfers, that is something that warrants public notice for everyone to see. We are not trying to belittle or shame anyone. We just want to see LESS of this sort of thing. This can be seen as public criticism, but this is what we consider necessary.

For the endless commits of “Thread Moved” or “Moved”: This is simply a mass scale of moderators publicly displaying that a person did something wrong and makes it clear to any potential buyer of that fact. If we as a community (i.e. members) cannot speak about issues with moderators in a open forum, then why does the moderators endlessly post these commits showing what we “did wrong”.

You can see it that way if you want, but these are notices of "problem fixed". Many times I put it there because someone else posts "Hey, this is in the wrong place". I will post "moved" so the OP doesn't come back and conclude that he has been publicly wronged because it is now in the correct space.

If we cannot publicly scrutinize the mods, why can we receive public scrutiny from them?

Isn't that EXACTLY what you are doing right now? Aren't you publicly scrutinizing our every action and comment with specific instances and complaints? Nobody has shut this discussion down or issued warnings to members to stop. Nobody has brought up your previous postings or complaints about how you conduct your business.

If you think you have been unfairly treated by a mod, you need to take it to Joey Link. What he decides, goes and should end there. It is his site and these are his policies.

If you don't like the rules or want to change things to something that you think is better, discussion is great. This way, we see your side and you see our side. We have LOTS of threads about the rules and how people would like to have them changed. We don't shut any of them down unless they become unproductive or include personal attacks.

And yes, I am not just complaining here, but trying to make this site a better place: Instead of submitting its members to a public-cyber-slap-on-the-hand, how about using the PM system. Move the thread as required by administration rules and send out a PM explaining what took place (there is a sample PM):

Dear Member,

Your thread has been moved to the proper location per site rules. If you have any questions or need further assistance, feel free to contact myself or any forum moderator as needed.

Thanks for your time,
Northwest Firearms Administration

This is not being a softy or fufu… It is proper customer service which I believe Joey Link will understand which in turns creates more paying members…

There is zero legitimate reasons to make the commits “moved” in the thread. If a person makes a mistake, the pm’ed letter will insure that mistake will not take place again.

I disagree. Public acknowledgment of these things prevents more of them in the future and decreases the amount of work the mods have to do.

I write enough PMs and don't want to add another type that I will be frequently writing and responding to just so that the OP can avoid any type of "public criticism". We are all adults here and should understand that "moved" is not a condemnation of character or a serious issue. The ad was just moved.

 

[cetme]

i feel you guys are doing a great job,thanks

 

[Joe Link]

I figure I'll chime in here to clarify a few points

I want to start by saying thank you to the members who take the time to discuss our policies and make constructive suggestions when they feel there is a better way of doing things. That's exactly how these current rules have come about and why they are the way they are. Chances are you can search through this section and find discussion on almost every rule we have. This community exists for it's users, not us moderators, so if we're doing something you don't like chances are we're going to try to accommodate your requests (within reason) to better suit our users. I want you to stay and work to make this community a community you want to be a part of. Please keep in mind though it is impossible for us to please everyone on here, and there's bound to be disagreement among us.

"Rules are rules" and "If you don't like it then leave" lines are the last things I want you to think of when thinking about the rules here. I encourage talking about them if for no other reason that you understand our reasons for having them, or in some cases that we understand and start thinking about how we can improve.

Users should not be hesitant to discuss our rules, policies, or procedures in the public forum, as long as they're in this section. Moderators are instructed to allow these threads to remain so long as they don't violate the rules, don't contain personal insults, and remain respectful to one another. Only in very rare cases should moderators edit or delete posts and/or threads such as these. This thread is a great example of the openness I want to exist here on NWFA.

I've instructed moderators to post in threads they move/close/modify because it helps both the users and the other moderators, as MarkSBG mentioned. We use each of these situations as a reminder for others, as I doubt many people have taken the time to remember all the rules. We've found that over time spent on this site people learn from these reminders and other peoples mistakes. If it were a serious matter it would be handled via a PM (and possibly in public to remind others, such as illegal FTF transaction), but for moved threads, unclosed threads, etc. and other simple matters posting in the thread is sufficient. This is in no way a public scolding, that's definitely not our intent (and hopefully our tone reflects that). The benefits of handling some of these things in public in order to remind others as well as ourselves far outweigh the risk that one might be offended if they make a mistake

 

[PinkhamR]

Agreed, as a fairly new member I think the Mod's are doing a great job.

 

[Nightshade]

When i have screwed up in bumping a little reminder is good And i take no offence
the guys are doing a fine job.

 

[pirateer2007]

I've screwed up a couple times, and even received an infraction by Trlsmn, but he's always treated me fairly and with the utmost respect. The same goes for all the rest of the Mods. Tough job, glad you guys have stepped up to do it