Deleting post is the classifieds may be getting a bit excessive..???

[hntn&fshn]

To the forum managers/moderators; First of all, I understand why folks should not turn classified posts in to debates threads; however, some of you may be getting a little trigger happy on deleting threads that are helpful or inquiring of the threads. Most of the time you all do a great job by keeping the tread focused on the intent of the sale. I have notice recently however that helpful/inquiring post are being deleted. Here is just one example: there is a member that currently has a rifle for sale in the classified section. The rifle is chambered in a certain caliber that I have been searching for for some time now (somewhat rare). Unfortunately for me and others, the seller did not post ANY pertinent information about the rifle such as brand, condition, age, etc. I asked the OP if he could list this information so that the readers would know if we were interested in his item. The seller never did answer the question but other members tried to help (using the picture (which came after my question) as a reference) and all of our posts were deleted. So consequently the rifle is still for sale. In my humble opinion, I think it may behoove us to use a wee bit of common sense here and delete the threads that do not pertain to the original post, are argumentative, etc, but posts that pertain to the subject/item and are simply trying to gather information should remain for other members to read. All of the posts that were deleted in this example (that I saw) were helpful to the OP.

Lastly, I would not have made this comment if this were the only incident that I have noted where helpful posts have been deleted in the classified threads.

Best regards,
H&F

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[The Duck]

Speaking out-loud about a moderator issue on a open forum, we both are now looking at a "infaction"...

But: I have noticed the same thing. A few weeks back, I opened a for sale post and made the commit "that really is a beautiful rifle". The post was deleted and I was given a warning.

Needless to say, people will tell us/me that we need to follow the rules of the website, but if the rule seems a little excessive and unneeded (i.e. a positive post vs. a negative post), we as a on line community should address the issue.

If you still say "just follow the rules", I would love to see some of the same peoples post about "big brother" and how the government is overstepping their bounds. (i.e. follow the moderator rules to the teeth, but question everything the government does... Hypocrisy)...

 

[Trlsmn]

Speaking out-loud about a moderator issue on a open forum, we both are now looking at a "infaction"...

That's not true. You are not allowed to publicly post about infractions and on the flip side of that we mods also don't speak about a members infractions in public or to other members otherwise this sections whole purpose is to discuss matters such as these.

But: I have noticed the same thing. A few weeks back, I opened a for sale post and made the commit that "that is really is a beautiful rifle". The post was deleted and I was given a warning.

Yes you can always count on those kind of posts being deleted.

Needless to say, people will tell us/me that we need to follow the rules of the website, but if the rule seems a little excessive and unneeded (i.e. a positive post vs. a negative post), we as a on line community should address the issue.

We have these rules in place because of problems in the past. Posts in the classifieds must pertain to buying or selling an item only.

If you still say "just follow the rules", I would love to see some of the same peoples post about "big brother" and how the government is overstepping their bounds. (i.e. follow the moderator rules to the teeth, but question everything the government does... Hypocrisy)...

:huh:

 

[The Duck]

About the line "that really is a beautiful rifle"... How about that being a starting line of dialect? How many times have I or anyone else, stooped by a gun shop to just "look around" and started to talk with the owner or sales man, made that same commit and ended up walking out of the store with it on accident?

Maybe the seller would reply with his interpretation of why it is in deed a "beautiful gun" and why he likes it but has to sell it?

I joined up with this forum for that reason. If I wanted to just look at guns and not speak/have dialect back and forth, there is always other on line sites (i.e. we all know them)...

What makes this site great is the forum ability and the people in them? Why cut us off at our knees when there is no reason.

Huge I.E. here: I positive post speaking about the firearm VS. a HUGE negative post about the firearm, person or price!!!

I would curve the rules to keep the community a "community" and not just a website!

 

[Trlsmn]

About the line "that really is a beautiful rifle"... How about that being a starting line of dialect?

That is why we have the PM system and you are allowed all the dialect you wish. You are not allowed to post questions that do not pertain to the sale of an item because of several reasons the most important reason is it bumps a persons post to the top unfairly and this was a very much abused practice.

How many times have I or anyone else, stooped by a gun shop to just "look around" and started to talk with the owner or sales man, made that same commit and ended up walking out of the store with it on accident?

Maybe a the seller would reply with his interpretation of why it is in deed a "beautiful gun" and why he likes it but has to sell it?

I joined up with this forum for that reason. If I wanted to just look at guns and not speak/have dialect back and forth, there is always other on line sites (i.e. we all know them)...

As noted relevant questions pertaining to information you wish to know in deciding if it's what you want is always and has always been allowed. Posts such as "nice gun" or "I have one of those myself and love it" are not. We have sections to display your gun or to talk guns, the classified section is not the place to do this.

What makes this site great is the forum ability and the people in them? Why cut us off at our knees when there is no reason.

I disagree with your assessment, from what I see people don't want their Ad buried by someone elses chatty thread.

Huge I.E. here: I positive post speaking about the firearm VS. a HUGE negative post about the firearm, person or price!!!

I would curve the rules to keep the community a "community" and not just a website!

The classifieds is not and has never been what NWFA is abot. Past abuse and members wishes is why we have the classified rules the way they are. It was literally a free for all in the classified section with the most persistent people always on top and the real users that aren't here at NWFA to make side money flipping guns being eaten by the sharks that were abusing it.

The classified have turned around and the amount of reports from unhappy members at the stuff that was happening has literally gone from about 10 per day everyday to less than a handful per week. Is it perfect? No, but it is working.

 

[The Duck]

I disagree with your assessment, from what I see people don't want their Ad buried by someone elses chatty thread.

Well: You are a moderator on this forum/site and I will just bow out of this topic and keep browsing the forums as before. I am just now remembering why I try not to post to often (i.e. moderator personal preference and interpretation)...

 

[Trlsmn]

Well: You are a moderator on this forum/site and I will just bow out of this topic and keep browsing the forums as before. I am just now remembering why I try not to post to often...

Should I agree? What kind of person would I be if I didn't express my opinion?

 

[The Duck]

Should I agree? What kind of person would I be if I didn't express my opinion?

You would be a "Moderator", whom is a third party body to oversee a forum and not put their personal view or preference into the forum...

 

[Trlsmn]

Back to the original poster I think I found the thread in question. What it looks like may have happened is someone turned in all the off topic chatter and when the thread was being cleaned up your post inadvertently was deleted also. I restored your post.

Please understand that we mods will make mistakes, I've made plenty. I made a big one yesterday because it was early and I couldn't count to 7 before my morning coffee.

 

[Trlsmn]

You would be a "Moderator", whom is a third party body to oversee a forum and not put their personal view or preference into the forum...

I'm just trying to be open about how things work here, many people have misconceptions about what goes on in the back here and it's really not a secret so I like to let the members know why some of these rules are in place. I feel that not explaining things and the reasons behind the rules makes for resentment personally. These are not personal views or preferences.

 

[MarkSBG]

If you still say "just follow the rules", I would love to see some of the same peoples post about "big brother" and how the government is overstepping their bounds. (i.e. follow the moderator rules to the teeth, but question everything the government does... Hypocrisy)...

Hypocrisy? Hypocritical would be if we enforced rules on members, but not on ourselves. When any mod puts up an ad, we follow the rules just like you do.

If someone was invited to my house and was smoking in my living room, I would tell him that there is no smoking in my house. Can he call me a hypocrite because I smoke when I am not in my house? No, I am following the exact same rule that I expect him to follow.

You call us hypocrites because we say, "follow the rules" but question the rules from the government? We have NOT stopped you from questioning the rules of NWFA just like we question the rules of the government. We expect that you follow the NWFA rules that you question, just like we follow the government rules that we question.

This is NOT hypocrisy. It is consistent.

 

[Member 5605]

I appreciate the consistency of this forum.

I appreciate how when I open a Four Sails ad I can expect to not have it bumped by posts that are not mine, nor are interested parties. "I have one of these and they are good", "Excellent, seen it in person"... not relevant.

A good sale ad will have all necessary information, photos included that will show the quality.


+1 zillion, keep it up

 

[The Duck]

Hypocrisy? Hypocritical would be if we enforced rules on members, but not on ourselves. When any mod puts up an ad, we follow the rules just like you do.

If someone was invited to my house and was smoking in my living room, I would tell him that there is no smoking in my house. Can he call me a hypocrite because I smoke when I am not in my house? No, I am following the exact same rule that I expect him to follow.

You call us hypocrites because we say, "follow the rules" but question the rules from the government? We have NOT stopped you from questioning the rules of NWFA just like we question the rules of the government. We expect that you follow the NWFA rules that you question, just like we follow the government rules that we question.

This is NOT hypocrisy. It is consistent.

Follow Link: http://www.northwestfirearms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29927 (unless he fixes it, which he does every time I call him out)

Does his post follow the rules which pertains the the purchase for the firearm... Needless to say, it was a "good" commit, it does not follow the rules... That might be "Hypocrisy"?

 

[terrylf72]

my $0.02..

This is a non-issue. If you dont like how thing are run, or you think it is stupid or idiotic for the mods to keep the forums clean from clutter i.e. (( "I have one of these and they are good",, "Excellent, seen it in person,, "that really is a beautiful rifle..))

Then do as I have learned and others have done in the past.. Leave, Dont argue an argument your not going to win. Grow up, dont put the mods down for doing what they have been asked to do...

Great job Mods, although I dont agree with everything that is said and done. Still have to follow the rules.


Terrylf72 i.e KnightWraiths

 

[The Duck]

my $0.02..

This is a non-issue. If you don't like how thing are run, or you think it is stupid or idiotic for the mods to keep the forums clean from clutter i.e. (( "I have one of these and they are good",, "Excellent, seen it in person,, "that really is a beautiful rifle..))

Then do as I have learned and others have done in the past.. Leave, Don't argue an argument your not going to win. Grow up, don't put the mods down for doing what they have been asked to do...

Great job Mods, although I don't agree with everything that is said and done. Still have to follow the rules.


Terrylf72 i.e KnightWraiths

If you follow the link, I am just wanting to hold the people acountable... That is the topic of so many threads and post. Why is that disregarded on this one? Is a moderator absolute and infallible?

I am making a simple point and everyone is taking it over the top here... Take a step back and read the text!

 

[Trlsmn]

Follow Link: http://www.northwestfirearms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29927 (unless he fixes it, which he does every time I call him out)

Does his post follow the rules which pertains the the purchase for the firearm... Needless to say, it was a "good" commit, it does not follow the rules... That might be "Hypocrisy"?

I would urge users to please read his link he pointed out that shows me doing my job as a mod.

Here is another thread where I stepped in and un-hypocritically did my job as a mod, posting off topic as was necessary. What's funny is while searching my posts looking for the "evidence" this would have come up first in his search.

http://www.northwestfirearms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31792

See now you're making this about me and that's where you're going wrong in making this personal.


The fact is my post is relevant. We do not allow talk of FTF cross state lines transactions so my post was 100% legitimate and when other members post the same thing their posts are not deleted either. Mods have a job to do and we do in accordance to our policy, so no, that is not hypocrisy.

The post is legitimate because it has to do with the sale of the gun.

 

[MarkSBG]

Follow Link: http://www.northwestfirearms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29927 (unless he fixes it, which he does every time I call him out)

Does his post follow the rules which pertains the the purchase for the firearm... Needless to say, it was a "good" commit, it does not follow the rules... That might be "Hypocrisy"?

How does his comment about how the gun sale appears to be going down NOT pertinent to the sale of the gun? I will give you that several of the other posts are not needed and irrelevant. They should have been deleted, but Trlsmn is right where he needs to be. I am glad that you think that the comment is a good one, but I don't understand why you object to it being made. It is directly about the sale.

Part of our job is to squash illegal, illegitimate, and abusive posts. If we have to post about the appearance of an illegal transfer, we will. The alternative is to just shut down those threads where things might go sideways. We don't want to do that. Instead, we give the OP and responder an opportunity to clarify their intentions. This way everybody wins. (That is until the mods get called out as hypocrites.)

We only need to have one knucklehead organize and transfer 1 item (advertised on NWFA) illegally to get stung by the ATF or an anti-2nd amendment reporter. We are not willing to risk getting this site shut down or becoming the subject of a hack job article. So, yes, we have little patience for people who even appear like they are willing to break the law for the sake of a quick sale.

 

[coctailer]

I think we are miles ahead of where we used to be when the classifieds were abused.

I never minded the chatter in the threads, but the "Fake banter" was annoying.

If we can keep the threads on topic with real questions, that would help.

Believe it or not, we have had members get fake accounts for the sole purpose of posting "Sweet rifle, wish I had the cash" This was just to bump their thread to the top.

We will make mistakes at times as moderators. Try to keep from cutting our heads off as a knee-jerk reaction.
We honestly want this to be a fun site to hang out on, and if we have lighter rules, it will make it a terrible place for other members to try to enjoy.

Feedback is welcome, but don't get mad if we don't implement every suggestion.

 

[U201494]

Trlsmn's points are valid. Let it go.
&
This is America, you can start your own forum and run it your way.

 

[hntn&fshn]

I want to repeat here what I stated above and that is that this site has been "run" very well and I very much appreciate how the classified threads are kept free of unproductive posts. Personally, I think it is somewhat annoying when folks make offers in the thread rather than via PM's. I have also noted that some folks try to "influence" the sale by making personal opinions in another members classified thread - this also is a bit annoying and clutters up the thread. The moderators have done a great job in keeping this to a minimum. (now comes the "however" part ) However, I have noticed recently that some posts which are productive have been deleted maybe just a hair too quick. I know you guys have a tough job but I am just asking if you guys could be a bit more careful with the deleting process. Most sellers do a pretty good job with their ads but some need a little help from the members to elicit pertinent information.

Keep up the good work!