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[Member 5605]

PLEASE don't lump all from calif into one classification .. look @ the blue / red map next time theres an election .. most of CA is republican .. its the large populated areas that votes the wrong way .. kinda like oregon ..

I hate to say it but...

Let's start at the top:

Governator: he's an idiot. Who voted him into office?

The laws that are passed: Who voted those lawmakers into office

The stooopid lenient laws regarding illegals, healthcare etc. Who voted the people who have the say in on that.

Red/Blue don't mean jack when you have idiiot red and blue states passing asinine laws.

The majority of people in Oregon are idiots too. They follow along liberal/conservative or dem/repub lines and don't look out for their best interests. "Oh it's a democrat running, let's be a sheeple and vote for him.. " "Oh no our schools are under attack because the state can't manage their budget.. let's raise taxes on the 'rich' since it' won't effect me"


Same philosophy applies to companies that are run in california by liberal minded money hungry people. You are defined by your actions. The simple act of Pay-Pal banning ONE person for the sale/purchase of a weapon related item (even if it was a peep site) proves them to be anti-gun.

Any questions?

 

[roguebowhunter]

nope no questions and i'll refrain from makin the comments i'd like ... Don

 

[tionico]

PayPal and eBay DO havae a strong antigun policy. It cannot be a "safety issue" with them, otherwise Auction Arms and Gunbroker would be exposed to the same risks. That's a straw man they erect to distract from their position.

Here's what they say about certain items:

Stun guns – For US residents, PayPal allows transactions for stun guns only if the transaction is permitted by law in both the buyer's and seller's jurisdictions. US sellers must ensure that each transaction is legal in both locations before completing the sale. Transactions for stun guns involving account holders outside the US are prohibited.

see, they put the onus on the transaction partners to comply with all laws in their respective jurisdictions. Just as AA and GB do. If they can set such standards for stun guns, and avoid "liability", they can do the same with firearms.

By the bye, I've known of cases where PayPal have closed accounts, seizing funds to which they have no right or title, for private party transactions involving firearms... so its not JUST restricted to eBay sales.


Gunbroker now use a system called GunPal.... a similar service, but firearm friendly. Haven't researched it yet, but if they can be used for any transaction between any parties (and not just GunBroker sales), I'll begin using them instead of PayPal.

Gun friendly or gun hostile, I've tangled with PayPal, and I hate them.... foul, mean, incompetent, bullying, inattentive, ALWAYS right, even when they're not...... they've been the ONLY game on the hill for far too long. I hope GunPal can displace a LOT of their business.

Of course, PayPal being eBay's favourite son, I rather doubt GunPal could be used for general eBay transactions. eBay recently changed their payment policies, all but eliminating any payment method besides PayPal.

And the Federal Government went after Microsoft for "monopoly" tactics...... what a farce. eBay and their stinking son should be brought up on similar charges.


GO GunPal............

 

[Gunner3456]

To be fair, eBay has always had a "no guns" policy, even with an apparently staunch registered Republican as CEO from the early days all the way until 2008. Not able to find any info on the political affiliations of the current boss. Ebay is not a gun-friendly business, but "they're owned by hardcore leftists" isn't the reason.

A staunch Republican in Kalifornicate is the Governator. A staunch Republican in the Bay Area, including especially Silicone Valley, is not looking out for my gun interests. Hey, this is The People's Republik of Kalifornia we're discussing here, where even people on gunbroker usually say "no sales to Kalifornia."

PLEASE don't lump all from calif into one classification .. look @ the blue / red map next time theres an election .. most of CA is republican .. its the large populated areas that votes the wrong way .. kinda like oregon ..

See Above.

 

[tionico]

The reason Gunbroker and Auction Arms sellers refuse to ship to California has nothing to do with the politics of the seller, or the auction site. California's Department of Justice (hey, don't poke at ME, that's what its called, though that's precisely what it is NOT) have put in place a pile of rules and regulations that make it impossible for a non-FFL dealer to ship anything into the state, and difficult/expsnsive for FFL dealers to do so. Unless a seller has a large volume that might get purchased by California residents, it is not worth setting up the special account, getting the special dealer number, doing all the extra paperwork required.

So, once more, we are back to Kalifornia's stinky decision to secede from the Union, where most of the rest of us have the right to keep and bear arms. With little infringement (though what infringements we DO have are excessive and illegal, they ARE workable).

when will the drones come out of the fog?

 

[The Duck]

Delete

 

[bcp]

California's Department of Justice ... have put in place a pile of rules and regulations that make it impossible for a non-FFL dealer to ship anything into the state,

From:
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/cflcfaqs.php#2

I am not an FFL but I want to ship a firearm to a California FFL. Do I have to obtain a Firearms Shipment Approval number before shipping a firearm to California?

No. The requirement to obtain a Firearms Shipment Approval number only applies to holders of valid FFLs.

 

[Gunner3456]

The reason Gunbroker and Auction Arms sellers refuse to ship to California has nothing to do with the politics of the seller, or the auction site. California's Department of Justice (hey, don't poke at ME, that's what its called, though that's precisely what it is NOT) have put in place a pile of rules and regulations that make it impossible for a non-FFL dealer to ship anything into the state, and difficult/expsnsive for FFL dealers to do so. Unless a seller has a large volume that might get purchased by California residents, it is not worth setting up the special account, getting the special dealer number, doing all the extra paperwork required.

So, once more, we are back to Kalifornia's stinky decision to secede from the Union, where most of the rest of us have the right to keep and bear arms. With little infringement (though what infringements we DO have are excessive and illegal, they ARE workable).

when will the drones come out of the fog?

I agree it's Kalif's regulations that stop people from shipping there, but it's the politics in Kalif that cause them to have those regulations.

One thing that worries sellers (especially FFL's) is that if they ship something that's illegal to own in Kalif., it could get confiscated en route. How are we to keep track of everything that's illegal in Kalif?

 

[raftman]

A staunch Republican in Kalifornicate is the Governator. A staunch Republican in the Bay Area, including especially Silicone Valley, is not looking out for my gun interests.

Be that as it may, my point was that I find it kind of strange that people often accuse eBay/Paypal of being "liberal commies" despite the company having registered Republicans as key leadership members and being very successful capitalists.

Don't get me wrong, I think their anti-gun policies are sheer idiocy, but if we reduce it to "they're just a bunch of gun-hating leftists!" we're not really doing anyone any good.

 

[Gunner3456]

Be that as it may, my point was that I find it kind of strange that people often accuse eBay/Paypal of being "liberal commies" despite the company having registered Republicans as key leadership members and being very successful capitalists.

Don't get me wrong, I think their anti-gun policies are sheer idiocy, but if we reduce it to "they're just a bunch of gun-hating leftists!" we're not really doing anyone any good.

Let's please understand:

A registered Republican isn't necessarily pro-gun or patriotic or a lover of our constitution. We call those hypocrites RINO's.

There are a lot of rich capitalists who are "progressives" and anti-gun. Let's start with the Hollywood elite - not just the actors but the owners and producers.

I give you the Governator as exhibit "A." Bill Gates is exhibit "B" and Warren Buffet is exhibit "C" as rich capitalists who hate you and America.

Ebay owns PayPal and there is NO good reason other than a dislike for guns for them to seize funds and suspend accounts over gun or gun related transactions. Ebay has to take the fall here because they do own PayPal. If it were a serious liability issue or some other valid excuse, then I couldn't buy guns with MasterCard, Visa, and American Express, but I can.

$.02

 

[dario541]

There is a sign in the local Bi-Mart store that says something to the effect that "California law prohibits the sale of firearms to California residents. Sorry." That is why it is difficult to sell guns to California citizens.

 

[tionico]

I give you the Governator as exhibit "A." Bill Gates is exhibit "B" and Warren Buffet is exhibit "C" as rich capitalists who hate you and America.


and I'll add, as Exhibit "D", George Soros; and Exhibit "E", Michael Bloomberg; Exhibit "F" (handy how that one works out) The Kenyan; Exhibit "G", Clinton; Exhibit "H", Clinton.

Each and all of the above "Exhibits" have one or both of two mechanisms driving them: 1) strong megalomaniacal tendencies, and their wealth and power gives them the means to manipulate, or
2) somehow, in the getting of their wealth, ties and obligations were effected that bind them to the support of some idealogy not normally their own.

Bear in mind, as well, some political activists are so strongly dedicated to their adopted "causes" they will actually join, seemingly, their opposing parties for the purpose of corrupting them. People like Alinsky, Dorn, Newton, Hoffman, all come to mind.

Thus, bearing one label or another is no guarantee they hold to, or promote, a given idealogy. The men above are about as anti-gun as anyone can be.

 

[tionico]

From:
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/cflcfaqs.php#2

I am not an FFL but I want to ship a firearm to a California FFL. Do I have to obtain a Firearms Shipment Approval number before shipping a firearm to California?

No. The requirement to obtain a Firearms Shipment Approval number only applies to holders of valid FFLs.

this is very interesting. It is the general understanding that Calif FFL will only accept from out of state FFL. Maybe their wonderful department of "justice" have failed to properly inform their own little club of their complete rules.

Interesting, too, that this entire beurocracy system is operated at no added cost for the transaction. This sort of thing is precisely why their state government is upside down fiscally. Hey, I wonder what some of the snobby anti-gun crowd would think if they realised THEY are paying to run the beurocracy that actually enables California residents to obtain firearms, at no cost to them...... Methinks that understanding would set as well with them as the fact that muni bus riders pay less than one-fifth the actual cost of the service they utilise. the rest comes from MY taxes.

 

[slingshot1943]

when i signed up for pay pal i also got the pay pal credit card. it was a general electric card which i promptly canceled because i've heard a lot about ge being anti gun. i think that ties pay pal to the anti gun crowd.

 

[mpmax]

You can't sell magazines or barrels on ebay anymore...I questioned them before closing my account and was told by a customer service rep. that guns are designed to kill people and that is why they won't allow basically gun parts that control bullets. I pointed out that automobiles kill scores more people than guns and that in particular, 'Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than any gun I've owned. Ebay was not impressed with facts.

 

[raftman]

Let's please understand:

A registered Republican isn't necessarily pro-gun or patriotic or a lover of our constitution. We call those hypocrites RINO's.

There are a lot of rich capitalists who are "progressives" and anti-gun. Let's start with the Hollywood elite - not just the actors but the owners and producers.

I give you the Governator as exhibit "A." Bill Gates is exhibit "B" and Warren Buffet is exhibit "C" as rich capitalists who hate you and America.

Ebay owns PayPal and there is NO good reason other than a dislike for guns for them to seize funds and suspend accounts over gun or gun related transactions. Ebay has to take the fall here because they do own PayPal. If it were a serious liability issue or some other valid excuse, then I couldn't buy guns with MasterCard, Visa, and American Express, but I can.

$.02

Oh I agree. In a way, that was part of what I was saying. Not everyone that's right of center, or calls themselves a Republican, conservative, etc is pro-gun or pro-constitution. I've known many quite a number of anti-gun conservatives. There's also actually a surprising amount of pro-gun folks among Democrats and people left of center.

I just don't think it benefits our cause to throw around names. We can just vote with our dollars. We can't pay for guns, gun parts, or certain accessories with Paypal, but we can pay for them by other means. Can't buy any of those things on eBay, but we can elsewhere. No one is making us use eBay or Paypal. If eBay cares enough about lost profits, they may consider changing their policy, if they don't care, well we still have the choice of doing business with someone else.

 

[Gunner3456]

Oh I agree. In a way, that was part of what I was saying. Not everyone that's right of center, or calls themselves a Republican, conservative, etc is pro-gun or pro-constitution. I've known many quite a number of anti-gun conservatives. There's also actually a surprising amount of pro-gun folks among Democrats and people left of center.

I just don't think it benefits our cause to throw around names. We can just vote with our dollars. We can't pay for guns, gun parts, or certain accessories with Paypal, but we can pay for them by other means. Can't buy any of those things on eBay, but we can elsewhere. No one is making us use eBay or Paypal. If eBay cares enough about lost profits, they may consider changing their policy, if they don't care, well we still have the choice of doing business with someone else.

Agreed.