Defensive gun use, and a reminder to talk to a lawyer before anyone else

[nammac]

75 year old homeowner takes out 14 year old piece of trash... Should give him the keys to the city... Period. Consider the gene pool just that much cleaner now...

 

[Patriot1775]

I find it ridiculous that a punk walks towards a cop with a knife gets killed. A citizen in the same situation is in the wrong? GMAFB! The punk was advancing on him to give him the knife? Probably in his chest then rob the owner's place. He's 75 for crying out loud. I'd probably dropped him as well. I hate how punks, most with drug and violent police records, are killed and everyone says how nice and sweet they were! Bovine Scatology!

 

[scott_see]

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

 

[Quartermaster]

I know it's been posted a thousand times but it's worth the 46 minutes of watching......In fact, I'm gonna watch it again right now for the umpteenth time...

Bumping for awareness.

 

[scott_see]

Don't
Talk to the Police is "almost" the right thing to do. I'd defer to Massad Ayoob's judgement on this. See

 

[Diamondback]

Unfortunately, USCCA no longer offers their services in Washington state due to BobTurd Ferguson.

FIFY!

 

[BDA.45]

Don't
Talk to the Police is "almost" the right thing to do. I'd defer to Massad Ayoob's judgement on this. See

(I) digress. While I may agree with one or two points of his, NEVER talk to the cops. Once you open your mouth you've already said too much. In this day and age, with cameras ALL around us (unless you're in the middle of nowhere or some podunk town) the video will tell a good portion of the story.

 

[scott_see]

BDA.45, I respect your opinion, but I'm going with Massad Ayoob's advice. He's been in more self defense shooting related courtrooms than all of us put together.

 

[scott_see]

(I) digress. While I may agree with one or two points of his, NEVER talk to the cops. Once you open your mouth you've already said too much. In this day and age, with cameras ALL around us (unless you're in the middle of nowhere or some podunk town) the video will tell a good portion of the story.

This is from the notes of Massad Ayoob's video:


Five Points of a Shooting Aftermath

1. "Officer this man/woman attacked me"
2. "I will sign the complaint"
3. Point out evidence. Evidence being handgun, spent casing, knife, deadly object
4. Point out witnesses there. i.e. security cameras, people etc.
5. "Officer you will have my full cooperation within 24 hrs after speaking with an Attorney"
6. I added this cause some of you nuts don't believe this. Watch your attitude when speaking to the police and If the cop asks you for ID, just give it to him. This is serious bubblegum and now's not the time to scream and rant about the Bill of Rights and the Constitution.

 

[Capn Jack]

As for Columnist Eric Zorn...
Sure going back inside , calling police and waiting , might have prevented , the 14 year old from, being killed.
It could also mean that the 14 year old might have been killed , if the police caught up with them.

More importantly :
If the 14 year old was not ridding around in a stolen car....then he wouldn't have been killed.

Lets put aside the question of the homeowner being justified for shooting for a moment.
If the car wasn't stolen in the first place....the kid wouldn't have been there...if the kid hadn't been there , he wouldn't have been shot.
The stealing of the car , started the motions that ended that kids life. that evening.
Andy

Andy, you've hit the nail on the head....Ban cars....

 

[revjen45]

1) "Coincidentally, WA is one such state that allows deadly force to thwart the commission of a felony which, on its face, would include defending property."
Speculation over legal hypotheticals aside, it boils down to a matter of whether it's worth doing so vis-à-vis: Is what they're stealing worth how much it will cost if I shoot? In the Real World it would be hard/impossible for 5 people with hand trucks to make off with any property worth just the $ cost for lawyers, let alone legal jeopardy for a violent felony. Add to that the concomitant vilification in the Lamestream Media and whatever calumnies would undoubtedly be dreamed up and piled on. Ref, George Zimmerman. Whether you were right or wrong won't matter to The Mob - you shot one of their precious "teens"or one of Mayor Jennie's Noble Homeless. This must be discouraged, and the Truth is irrelevant.
The obvious answer is NO to shooting in defense of property. The same applies to shooting to resolve butthurt issues over slights and offenses.
Shooting in defense of life and limb is another thing entirely. I will retreat or leave to avoid having to shoot or present. If I can't leave I would not allow anybody to attack or harm me or the people I love. (The "general publick?" Not so much.) It could only be worth shooting if not shooting is worse.
2) Review that old classic "Surviving Edged Weapons." It shows that a knife IS a deadly weapon to be taken every bit as seriously as a gun from 21' and closer. Marty Hayes showed it in the FAS class I attended - goes to what you knew as to the true lethality level of a knife. Any Mike Inay video will dispel lingering doubts.

 

[DunRanull]

Unfortunate situation, for the old man. Lawyers will now swoop in , file a civil suit, old dude is now going to lose everything. Mom will get a settlement, lawyers will get most of it.

Maybe, maybe not..

 

[scott_see]

Unfortunate situation, for the old man. Lawyers will now swoop in , file a civil suit, old dude is now going to lose everything. Mom will get a settlement, lawyers will get most of it.

I'd bet against that. From what I've seen, most of the time charges are not brought and suits are not filed in justified self defense cases.

 

[coop44]

Most of the people in prison put themselves there. Any attempt to explain your actions can be misquoted, misconstrued, taken out of context. It will be accepted as truth because it will be testified to by the police in court. Be smart, shut the hell up.

 

[ma96782]

Aloha, Mark

 

[parallax]

I'd bet against that. From what I've seen, most of the time charges are not brought and suits are not filed in justified self defense cases.

I truly hope you are correct. If you hear any more news about this, please share.. I searched a few days ago trying to find a follow up story, no luck.

 

[scott_see]

I see a lot of stories about self defense shootings. My impression is that I see, "No charges were files" more often than, "Criminal/Civil charges are being brought against [self defense shooter]." Take what I say as anecdotal, as I haven't formally researched this. But I still fall back on trusting Massad Ayoob. I'm pretty sure he's got more hands-on experience with this than all of us put together. I've printed out his recommended response to police and I keep it in my wallet. And before I would reach into my pocket, I would tell the officer that I'm reaching into my pocket to get my wallet. And I would do so very slowly.
I'm going by memory here, but he recommends saying...

1. That person attacked me, and I was afraid for my life.
2. I would like to file and sign a complaint.
3. There is the evidence.
4. There are the witnesses.
5. I'll talk further after I've talked with an attorney.

I see very little that could get you in trouble there. And I see a lot in these five statements that would put an officer's mind at ease that I'm the good guy. That's kinda the whole point, right?

 

[revjen45]

1) "That's kinda the whole point, right?"
No. The whole point is to avoid being fed to the Legal Industry. Putting the responding cop at ease is only relevant to not getting shot on the spot. After surviving the initial encounter the whole remainder of your life is on the chopping block. If you have shot one of their Precious Underprivileged they must get revenge. You have cost the Dems a constituent and you have deprived the "Justice System" a source of income for the next 30 years.
2) Anything you see in the fish wrapper is to be regarded as having little or no relation to the truth. This is especially true when the subject is a SD/HD shooting. It will be presented in whatever context will make you the shooter look bad.
3) No disagreement as to the 5 points.

 

[Legion489]

The best video on YouTube about the subject. Basically, unless you are giving them information over the phone about a person in the act of trying to break into your house, don't talk to them.

AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! The cops job is to keep criminals on the street to justify their need for battle tanks, attack helicopters, attack jets, APCs, machineguns, (yes, I can supply actual examples of cops claiming they "need" all that and often getting it, including locally. "60 Minutes" actually did a segment on this and showed one GA county sheriff who had a private airport FULL of attack helicopters and fighter jets, free from the military, for a county that had about 2000 people! The city north of me here got at least one attack helicopter with working rocket pods and machineguns mounted. A small town east of here got a working tank, cannon and all. The last big "crime wave" they had was when a bunch of school kids jay walked!) to protect the rich and powerful/powers that be, collect bribes, go to work hungery, horny and broke and get it all taken care of by the end of their shift. How do you know a cop is lying to you? His lips are moving.

ALL you have to say is "I HAVE NOTHING TO SAY!" you might add "I WANT A LAWYER!", THEN SHUT THE FREAK UP!! SAY NOTHING MORE! SHUT UP!! Of course the cop(s) will probably arrest you (to many actual cases to list) for using your RIGHT TO REMAIN (KEEP) SILENT, but that just sets up a law suit that often gets you big bucks (if they don't beat you bloody and/or kill you, google Larry "Liberty" Bell) from incompetent boobs (actually it is usually the dept/city, but they deserve it for electing idiots to office and allowing these idiots out in public) who should not be allowed out with out a handler/keeper. That is if the boob doesn't shoot you. Yes, actual examples that were taped. Check You Tube.

 

[DB is Here]

Forum rules state:

Epithets, labels, and generalizations against another person or group of people, whether they are members here or not. These serve absolutely no purpose other than to divide us, directly opposite to our goal of uniting gun owners. This is especially relevant in regard to political labels (such as 'the liberal media', 'those right-wingers', and even 'left/right'). Pro-gun and anti-gun are the only labels that should be applied here, as we are a single issue community. This rule also applies to but is not limited to epithets, labels, and generalizations pertaining to race, sex, sexual orientation, religion, age, ethnicity, nationality, occupation (such as law enforcement), and every other one you can think of. Disagreement over what constitutes a religion, race, sexual orientation, ethnicity, etcetera is not a legitimate excuse.

With that said let's stay away from the group bashing or this thread will, unfortunately, be closed.