Defensive gun use, and a reminder to talk to a lawyer before anyone else

[awshoot]

'Why would you just come out shooting?' Mother of 14-year-old boy killed by homeowner questions man's account

Tyiesha Annan sounded tired, but mostly angry, as she talked about her 14-year-old son and the questions she has for the homeowner in Lake County, Ill., who shot and killed him, telling police he fired his gun to scare the boy and five other teens off his property.

...

Police say Ja'quan, four cousins and a friend had traveled to Old Mill Creek near the Wisconsin border in a stolen black Lexus SUV. Around 1 a.m. Tuesday, a 75-year-old man went outside his home in the 17600 block of West Edwards Road after seeing some of the teens near his 2011 Audi.

He told investigators that he yelled at them to leave and then fired his gun when one of them moved toward him with an unknown object in his hand. Ja'quan was hit in the head.

...

A knife was recovered from the driveway, authorities said.

...

Lake County State's Attorney Michael Nerheim has said in a statement that the teens "decided to come to Lake County with their sole intention to commit a series of residential and vehicle burglaries," and drove to the area "armed with a large 10-inch-long hunting knife with a stainless-steel blade."

But see this followup column:

Column: Lake County homeowner probably wasn’t justified shooting at car burglars, but our absurd felony murder law says it doesn’t matter

I can put myself in the position of the homeowner in Old Mill Creek, startled at a little past 1 a.m. on Aug. 13 by the sounds of six strangers in his driveway evidently attempting to break into hi…

www.chicagotribune.com

You've probably read about it: The man yelled at the group to leave. He later said that two of them advanced on him, one with an unknown object in his hand that police said turned out to be a hunting knife with a 10-inch blade. The man opened fire, intending, he said, to frighten off trespassers, but one shot fatally wounded 14-year-old Ja'quan Swopes of Chicago.

...

From the safety and literal and emotional distance of my position at the keyboard in my office in the light of day, my conclusion is that he was not justified in using deadly force against people who at the time were some 40 feet away, according to law enforcement officials.

The man, who has not been charged, should have gone back in his house, locked the doors, called police and waited for help. Yes, he's 75 years old — every news story has pointed this out — but a gun is an equalizer in such situations.

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[American123]

I'm not upset about car thieves dying due to their poor choices, but he was just about to go to college, and never did anything, and was a good boy his entire growing up, so I guess my first comment is out of place.

What neighborhood is being burned down now?

 

[Goosebrown]

Yes. Call your lawyer. Best advice ever. In this case at least.

Thug with a knife. End of story.

 

[Stomper]

Well, Tyiesha.... the contamination that you inflicted upon the gene pool has been (hopefully) ended, so rejoice!!! it's for the "common good".

 

[Member 5605]

Sounds good from my bed.

They advanced with a weapon with unknown intent and were attempting or in process of committing a felony.

Clean shoot.

 

[Head Shot]

Erased

 

[Mark Torrence]

USCCA!

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Speaking from personal experience...

"I was in fear for my life...I will gladly cooperate , but will only answer questions , when my lawyer arrives."
Is a very good statement to make.

After defensive gun use...
You will be questioned...
Seconded guessed...
And have your every action , statement and lifestyle scrutinized

No matter how justified the gun use was or appeared to be needed , to you...that doesn't mean that it will appear the same to anyone else.
You can easily talk your way into trouble here.

You will not be given the key to the city , high fived or told : "Good job" , by law enforcement...
You will be questioned and judged , often by folks who have no real idea of you , your experience , situation or any knowledge of firearms or shooting.

Keep your statements clear , concise and complete....Simple is far and away better here.

The only other thing I know for sure is :
A excellent way to avoid being shot is not to steal , or ride around in a stolen car
Andy

 

[Deacon]

He was just a "good boy" hanging out with his cousins that "sometimes stole cars"... They're always "good" kids with a bright future. It's never anyones fault but the shooter in these cases.

 

[parallax]

Unfortunate situation, for the old man. Lawyers will now swoop in , file a civil suit, old dude is now going to lose everything. Mom will get a settlement, lawyers will get most of it.

 

[DB is Here]

I'm sure the National outcry of the 75 year old being beaten or killed would have been enough to dissuade the next would be robber...said no one ever.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

As for Columnist Eric Zorn...
Sure going back inside , calling police and waiting , might have prevented , the 14 year old from, being killed.
It could also mean that the 14 year old might have been killed , if the police caught up with them.

More importantly :
If the 14 year old was not ridding around in a stolen car....then he wouldn't have been killed.

Lets put aside the question of the homeowner being justified for shooting for a moment.
If the car wasn't stolen in the first place....the kid wouldn't have been there...if the kid hadn't been there , he wouldn't have been shot.
The stealing of the car , started the motions that ended that kids life. that evening.
Andy

 

[awshoot]

Sounds good from my bed.

They advanced with a weapon with unknown intent and were attempting or in process of committing a felony.

Clean shoot.

Same to me, but his comment along the lines of "I just wanted to scare them off" could turn into an enourmous problem for him, if not criminally then in a civil suit. It didn't need to be said in the context of being attacked with a knife nearly as long as a short sword.

 

[bbbass]

Somebody died in the commission of a felony... the rest of the perps should be charged with murder or manslaughter, not the poor older gentleman.

Yup, this would have been a simple case if the shooter hadn't been a blabbermouth.

Tyiesha, Myeesha, Keneesha, BoBeesha... sheesh!!

 

[revjen45]

The problem isn't so much with having fired the shot or the circumstances. It's being stupid enough to say you meant to scare them. See title of this thread. Shooting to protect life and limb is legally justified. Shooting to scare is not. After a warning shot to the head he just should have blown the smoke off the barrel and said "I was in fear for my life. (Like, no **** Sherlock). I want a lawyer before answering any questions." He was perfectly justified in capping the underage criminal and what a well aimed shot! Saying it was other than that was real stupid, and will indeed come back to bite him.
It could easily have been me in that situation. I would hope to remember that there's no Garrity for the Peons.
Upon actually reading the relevant links I noticed
1) That the usual attributions to the "victim" didn't include "Being scouted by the NBA" and "Aspiring Rapper." Is that because he was 14 and that would be absurd, (never stopped it before) or because the "reporter" forgot?
2) The "Reporters" and commenters definitely painted it as the homeowner shooting to protect property when the shootee was advancing on him with a 10-inch knife. That's deadly threat.
3) Does the ' in Ja'quan indicate a glottal stop? His Mama sounds like all of the mamas of vicious little thugs who catch a round or three. "I know my baby. He wouldn't have a knife." hardly counts as hard evidence when the knife was found at the scene.

 

[American123]

The best video on YouTube about the subject. Basically, unless you are giving them information over the phone about a person in the act of trying to break into your house, don't talk to them.

 

[awshoot]

... I would hope to remember that there's no Garrity for the Peons. ...

Had to look up Garrity. ;-) The peons do have the 5th Amendment though.

Garrity Rights

Public employees have the right not to be compelled to incriminate themselves when questioned by their employer.

www.garrityrights.org

 

[11Charlie]

"But he was wrong for pulling the trigger!" WTF really?!!! You advance in a threatening way with intentions to do harm I'm doing the exact same thing!!

 

[bbbass]

1) That the usual attributions to the "victim" didn't include "Being scouted by the NBA" and "Aspiring Rapper." Is that because he was 14 and that would be absurd, (never stopped it before) or because the "reporter" forgot?

He also was just turning his life around, had signed up for college, etc.

"But he was wrong for pulling the trigger!" WTF really?!!! You advance in a threatening way with intentions to do harm I'm doing the exact same thing!!

#MeToo.... Isn't that why we have firearms and also why we carry??? Even if one lives in a "duty to retreat" state, in many instances there will not be time to flee. Sounds like somebody coming at him with a huge knife is one of those times.

The problem is that he apparently didn't actually see the knife... he related that the guy had something in his hand. That may be the reason he shot to scare (which I wouldn't do... either shoot to stop the threat or don't shoot). Then he is traumatized by what happened as a result and can't keep his mouth shut or didn't know to keep his mouth shut. I hope it turns out ok for him. I believe like others said that he may get off any criminal charge and wind up in civil court. It happened to my brother's best friend when a fellow acosted him in the parking lot, perp pulled out knife, a struggle ensued, they both fell to the ground, the perp falls on knife and dies, the perps family sues because the guy shouldn't have struggled with the perp.

 

[bbbass]

I like this so much I'll use it again in this thread:
Sure, hang on a sec... I'm just gonna go back inside!!!!