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Defense rounds

Discussion in 'Handgun Discussion' started by TrustInFew, Sep 21, 2012.

  1. TrustInFew

    TrustInFew Parkrose, oregon New Member

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    What do you keep in you ccw for defense rounds? All I currently have are fmj's. trying to find out what would be best to avoid through and through if something every were to happen. I have an xd .45. What do you all reccomend?
     
  2. M67

    M67 NW Oregon Active Member

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    For the .45ACP, any of these would be better than FMJ.
    Just run enough through your handgun, so you can trust the rounds, before you trust your life with them.

    These are just a few of the many available-

    Barnes XPB/TAC-XP 185gr HP loaded by:

    Cor-Bon (DPX45185)

    Winchester Ranger-T 230gr JHP (RA45T)

    Winchester Ranger-T 230gr JHP +P (RA45TP)

    Federal Tactical 230gr JHP (LE45T1)

    Federal HST 230gr +P JHP (P45HST1)

    Federal HST 230gr JHP (P45HST2)

    Speer Gold Dot 230gr JHP (23966)

    Speer Gold Dot 230gr +P JHP
     
    chemist and (deleted member) like this.
  3. JSJPDX

    JSJPDX East Portland Gold Supporter Gold Supporter

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    You have just asked one of those questions...

    Find yourself a good HP that will function reliably in your particular pistol. The HP is designed, among other things to avoid "through and through" wounds and to stay inside what it hit. There are a ton of good HP products on the market and you are about to hear about all of them and their relative merits.

    In my 45 pistols for carry I use Hornady Critical Defense with the 185 gr FTX bullet. I have always preferred the lighter bullet in this caliber.

    Good luck.
     
  4. KONE KILLER

    KONE KILLER WASHOUGAL, WA Active Member

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    Agree with the HP. I have some in my .357 that are lead on the tip, and then either copper or brass jacket for the other 3/4 of the bullet and are hollow as a dd blonds head. Tears some wicked holes in wood they do.
    Dont know the specifics on them, they are some home loads from the stuff my father in law left. I have shot about 30 of the .357 & 30 of the .38 sp+, and they will get the job done.
    They were proly some of his service rounds from when he was in LE.
     
  5. jonn5335

    jonn5335 Longview Active Member

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    I only run fmj's in semi autos I will use hp's in a wheelgun. Things tend to fail when you need them most I'd rather take one less chance :twocents:
     
  6. Skang

    Skang WA Well-Known Member

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    this is why I tell people to shoot at least 50rd of HP ammo they picked. because some HP ammo does tend to not work well with some guns.
     
  7. EJ20Legacy

    EJ20Legacy Spokane Area Member

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    Fderal HST is my choice. I don't think anything outperforms it and the price is right (sometimes hard to find. However, Ammunition To Go : Your one stop for all of your ammunition needs! usually has it in stock)

    If not that I would choose Hornady Critical Duty (not Defense). Plenty of other absolutely good rounds on the market, like Speer Gold Dot, a couple of the Winchester offerings, Cor-Bon DPX or anything else loaded with that Barnes TacXP bullet.
     
  8. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

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    In 9MM, 40 I use a Magsafe in the chamber and Speer Gold Dots in the magazines. In 45 I use a chamber Magsafe and my Sierra 185 grain hot handloads in the mags. In my gal's .357 Magnum she has alternating Magsafes and Remington 125 grain JHPs. In her BUG .38 Bodyguard she has Speer snubby loads and a few exotic Magsafes, the wadcutter looking ones

    Magsafe is first up in all our guns in case a point blank headshot is on the menu
     
  9. SynapticSilence

    SynapticSilence Battle Ground, WA Well-Known Member

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    I carry a Kahr CM9 with 124 grain Speer Gold Dots. For home defends I use a Sig C3 1911 .45 with 230 grain +p Gold Dots. I'm switching the C3 (and maybe the CM9 as well) out soon for a Springfield XDM 3.8" Compact .45 but plan to use the same Gold Dot rounds in it after making sure it'll cycle then reliably.

    Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2
     
  10. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    In my Charter Arms Bulldog pug .44spl I keep Winchester Silvertips (huge segmented hollow points)
    In my Charter Arms Undercover .38spl+P I keep a 125gr. Hornady XTP in a rather light load

    In my Bauer Automatic .25ACP I keep Remington Hollow points

    In the wifes Astra A90 9mm we keep a 124gr Hornady XTP in a fairly stout load. (18 of them in case anyone is counting)
     
  11. Silver Hand

    Silver Hand Southern Oregon Coast Well-Known Member

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    The bigger the projectile the better, Bullet weight don't forget bullet weight.
    Bigger is better!!!!

    I know I am in for a ballistics challenge next.
    What a can of worms I just opened.
     
  12. Akathepriest

    Akathepriest Astoria, OR Active Member

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    Generally saying if you are looking for a round for self defense a fmj will do a better job, however you have to consider over-penetration.
     
  13. Silver Hand

    Silver Hand Southern Oregon Coast Well-Known Member

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    Two wound channels are better than one in many cases. They are going to bleed a lot more if there are two holes in a person for sure.
     
  14. Akathepriest

    Akathepriest Astoria, OR Active Member

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    Yeah, I posted a video I found a while back and it pretty much solidified that idea.
     
  15. kukusya

    kukusya King County Wa Active Member

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    Your Springfield will run like a champ on any ammunition after you send about 500 round thru.
     
  16. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    Not sure what you mean here,but FMJs run better in semi autos than HP do.They are mostly smooth and round,so they tend to feed better.

    There is a T shirt out there that says,either 10mm or "45acp,cause taking a second shot is just silly". Any defense load HPs will do the job if they cycle in your gun.And I haven't read of any cycling problems with the XDs.(Did I miss them?)

    But one I won't use is the Gold Dot. Go to You tube and you can find gel tests that they will not expand every time
    There are plenty of ballistic gel tests of most every defense round out there on you tube.Not a perfect science,but they do show the performance compared to other loads.



    We always used to separate heavy and penetration,but if you watch some of the gel vids ,you see that some heavier 45acp loads penetrate better than the light ones.And others ,just as well.

    I have about 5 different ones I use,including a 160gn Double Tap that has a cavern for a HP.

    Hmm,first I've ever heard that one. Over penetration means very little wound channel and little bleeding. I would never suggest FMJs for defense rounds.
     
  17. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

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    Many of the best modern rounds like the Gold dots expand to 2 X bore size.. far more effective than the old designs as long as they penetrate deep enough

    That means a .45 can and may expand to 90 caliber at some point in the bullet passage.. if it exits like that it would probably cause massive blood loss, fast
     
  18. Tony617

    Tony617 Washington State Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I keep 40 S&W hollow points loaded in my pistols. My pistols are not particular about the HP rounds either. I tend to use 180gr Speer Gold Dots or 180gr Remington Golden Saber rounds. I also have 175gr Hornady Critical Duty as well but they are not on the AR15 ammo list for self defense yet.

    http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm

    If you're looking at this list for ammo for SD, you should test anywhere from 50-100 rounds to be sure it cycles through your pistol(s).
     
  19. pioneer461

    pioneer461 Columbia County, Oregon Active Member

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    In the past few years, ammo makers have made huge advances in bullet design and powder loadings. Many of the major ammo makers have introduced ammo specifically engineered as self defense ammo. No matter what brand you like, look for bullets with controlled expansion design that will expand reliably after passing through barriers, such as denim, sheet-rock, leather, etc. It was found that the older hollow point bullet designs would become clogged with that kind of material and fail to expand, essentially becoming FMJ. I've personally seen this happen in my investigations of shootings.

    I will only buy US made ammo for defensive purposes and the two brands that I carry in various calibers are; Hornady Critical Defense and Federal EFMJ (Expanding Full Metal Jacket). In my own, admittedly unscientific testing, those two bullet designs have performed well, and I can carry either with full confidence. Neither of them has ever failed to expand completely. Yup, they're a bit more expensive and for that reason I use cheaper stuff for most range practice and training. There are many other choices for self defense ammo so I suggest you investigate for that which will work best for you.

    Some folks cling to the notion that semi-auto pistols tend to jam using anything other than FMJ ammo. Once upon a time, that was true, but with modern pistol and ammo design, that is for the most part a thing of the past. Prudence however, would dictate that you run a box of your choice of carry ammo through your pistol, just to make sure and allow you to carry with full confidence. Expensive, but self defense is no place to go cheap. Not all ammo is created equal.
    For what it's worth. Your mileage may vary.
     
  20. EJ20Legacy

    EJ20Legacy Spokane Area Member

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    I like the idea of the EFMJ but it consistently fails to penetrate deeply enough in any test I have seen, and it is not good through barriers other than clothing if you want it to penetrate after passing through the barrier. It is too light for caliber and slows too quickly upon expansion. I don't mean to step on your toes, but in all of the actual controlled tests, including FBI spec tests, it is a consistently sub-par performer. I can see using it for a home defense round if my primary concern is avoiding overpenetration (apartment complex or something) and actual terminal performance is secondary to general safety. Or... use it in a gun that doesn't reliably feed hollowpoints (but will feed this) if that gun is your only choice.

    While I'm being annoying, check out Hornady's Critical Duty. "Defense" was designed for civilians, "Duty" was designed to pass the FBI testing protocol. It is significantly better through barriers, it always penetrates more deeply (it is heavier for caliber, etc)...


    If you're a YouTube video kind of a guy, TNOutdoors9 has some great, consistent tests on all of these rounds and many more: TNOUTDOORS9 Guns and Ammo Reviews - YouTube

    I would consider carrying Critical Duty instead of my round of choice, which is Federal HST, as I consider them basically a toss up for performance. The cost of HST is great though -- one of the most affordable of the super top quality modern hollowpoints.


    A lot of good testing done with actual law enforcement agencies and to FBI protocol specs available here. Data tables plus videos: Law Enforcement - Federal Premium LE, Speer LE, BLACKHAWK!, Eagle - Wound Ballistics