Defcad, Suppressors and 3D printing

[Spielmannsfluch]

I have a Trust and a 22 suppressor so I know the basics. However, I also have a friend who has a low end 3D printer. …

Over the weekend, I was pricing what it would take to get a suppressor for my Kimber 1911, and figured around a grand - $800 for the hardware, $200 for the stamp and threaded barrel, more or less. Then, I remembered the Defcad stuff I have, and the friend with the printer, who happens to be firearm friendly.

We got into a discussion today over lunch, wondering how we could do this legally for everybody. What is necessary for the serial, maker and markings for a suppressor? I know that you can make one in your garage, after you get the stamp. But a plastic suppressor is going to be disposable, almost by definition, but not necessarily. But seeing as it will cost a couple bucks in raw material, and about 18-20 hours print time, I feel it’s worth exploring as opposed to plopping down $800 for a can and $200 for a barrel.

I figure, since the plastic suppressor is practically disposable, it can be attached with a hose clamp instead of threads, saving money on the threaded barrel.

I know that the tax stamp is required beforehand. And that it is tied to a unique item with a registered serial. But, in practice, what differentiates between two home-made NFA items? My friend would have to get a FFL, in order to manufacture, right? That seems like a long process….but then again, we’re both business school graduates, and if there is a market out there for this type of item – a suppressor for 1/100 th the cost – there is a business opportunity.

I need some marginal legal advice here from a NFA Dealer, a FFL Dealer or maybe a lawyer. Or at least a direction in which to head. Or, at the very least, a lively discussion.

Thanks….

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[MrNiceGuy]

Paper mache is cheaper and just as durable.

 

[Spielmannsfluch]

Not nearly as much tensile strength.

 

[cpy911]

You will need to file a Form1 application with the ATF. Then send them a check for $200. I am not sure why you would want to have a plastic can that will last a few hundred rounds vs a metal one. I suggest you build a freeze plug suppressor. See SilencerTalk ? View topic - 22 freeze/expansion plug suppressor
It is doable with only hand tools. It will be much, much better than a plastic one. The guy who built these has thousands of rounds through his.
Will yours be for a pistol? If so, you will need to buy a booster to help cycle the action, also these freeze plug versions are very heavy compared to commercial.
Good luck!

 

[Spielmannsfluch]

Of course the form 1 - I've done that before.

Why? Because it can be light. As in bird bone light. With additive manufacturing, you can make otherwise impossible objects. Try milling a matrix-lattice object in plastic, then milling another 100 of them that look exactly the same. You can take advantage of the strength of angles, with minimal weight.

I figured the lack of weight, with a 1911, will mean no need for a booster.

But....what happens when it wears out? Legal-wise? I want to stay ckmiant with the law.

The person manufacturing it - will they need to register with the BATFE? Who is the manufacture - the one who created the designs, possesses the designs, or the one who simply flipa the switch?

 

[cpy911]

You can have someone else build the parts so long as you have full control over them (you are at the shop and observing while being built and you leave the shop with them in your hands)
The 1911 may cycle with a lightweight can....
I hear a Berretta 92 can cycle with very light weight cans and no boosters....don't know about 1911s.

Of course the form 1 - I've done that before.

Why? Because it can be light. As in bird bone light. With additive manufacturing, you can make otherwise impossible objects. Try milling a matrix-lattice object in plastic, then milling another 100 of them that look exactly the same. You can take advantage of the strength of angles, with minimal weight.

I figured the lack of weight, with a 1911, will mean no need for a booster.

But....what happens when it wears out? Legal-wise? I want to stay ckmiant with the law.

The person manufacturing it - will they need to register with the BATFE? Who is the manufacture - the one who created the designs, possesses the designs, or the one who simply flipa the switch?

 

[mattdomes]

The problem I see is that once one can wears out you will have to resubmit a Form1 and pay another $200.

Being plastic it may only work for 1 to (who knows how many) shots. The way to do this would be to become a Class 3 manufacturer and then you can have it for "demo purposes" along with all the other Class 3 goodies you want...

 

[Ryo]

Plastic melts. Suppressors get red hot.
I think it would be cheaper if you got a FFL 07/02 so you make your own which would last probably a mag before melting.

 

[Spielmannsfluch]

It has been done: SilencerTalk ? View topic - ABS Plastic Silencer - Can it be done

One question, though: I thought only the piece with the serial and makers mark were registered for the stamp? Can't you replace melted baffles like you can replace a belt barrel?

 

[Ryo]

It has been done: SilencerTalk ? View topic - ABS Plastic Silencer - Can it be done

One question, though: I thought only the piece with the serial and makers mark were registered for the stamp? Can't you replace melted baffles like you can replace a belt barrel?

Assuming your not a FFL07/02, my guess would be no. Just having one extra baffle is illegal. I don't know the legality of replacing a destroyed baffle

 

[OEDub]

Personally...if you were to venture down this route, I would think that you may want to do something similar to the oil filter suppressors. Have a durable thread adapter act as the registered piece and 3D print the disposable aspect of the suppressor. This way, you only have to pay for one stamp yet can replace the rest of the can at will.

 

[Spielmannsfluch]

I was thinking about using an outside aluminum tube for protection from pressure and heat, registering that, and replacing the interior as needed when they melt.

I was also imagining a slot design with a hose clamp instead of tbreads for attaching.

The whole reason is to make a cheap suppressor. In doing my research, I thought that some suppressors and threaded barrels were too expensive for what they are - reasonably cheap, miled and lathed aluminum and stainless items. It's the whole american ideal where I was thinking....if I can make this same thing cheaper than another, there's an opportunity here.

In my experience, suppressors need to be cleaned every few dozen to couple hundred shots. An acetone treated plastic, if engineered correctly, can last that long without cleaning. Just dispose of the inerds, and replace. Rather than spend $400 on a .22 can, spend $50 and a couple bucks each for replacement inerds. Plus the single time stamp on each, of course.

 

[del_and_bones]

Disclaimer: IANAL and I took the following statement from the ATF website.

Before anyone (who is not a SOT) goes about replacing baffles, read the statement below and pay close attention to the last sentence.

Q: May a Federal Firearms Licensee repair a silencer by replacing worn or damaged components?

A person who is licensed under the Gun Control Act (GCA) to manufacture firearms and who has paid the special (occupational) tax to manufacture National Firearms Act (NFA) firearms may replace a component part or parts of a silencer. Repairs may not be done if they result in removal, obliteration, or alteration of the serial number, as this would violate 18 U.S.C. § 922(k). If a silencer part bearing the serial number, other than the outer tube, must be replaced, the new part must be marked with the same serial number as the replacement part.
The term “repair” does not include replacement of the outer tube of the silencer. The outer tube is the largest single part of the silencer, the main structural component of the silencer, and is the part to which all other component parts are attached. The replacement of the outer tube is so significant an event that it amounts to the “making” of a new silencer. As such, the new silencer must be marked, registered and transferred in accordance with the NFA and GCA.
In the event that identical replacement parts for a silencer are not available, new and different component parts may be used as long as the silencer retains the same dimensions and caliber. In addition, the repair may result in a minimal reduction in the length of the outer tube due to rethreading, but repair may not increase the length of the outer tube. Increasing the length of the outer tube significantly affects the performance of the silencer and results in the “making” of a new silencer. As stated above, a new silencer must be marked, registered and transferred in accordance with the NFA and GCA. Reducing the length of the tube by a minimal amount in order to repair a silencer is often necessary to replace damaged end caps, as the tube must be rethreaded. Such minimal reduction of the length of the tube uses all of the original parts, does not significantly affect performance of the silencer, and may be done as part of a repair process without making a new silencer.
Persons other than qualified manufacturers may repair silencers, but replacement parts are “silencers” as defined in 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(24) that must be registered and transferred in accordance with the NFA and GCA.

 

[Spielmannsfluch]

Great reference - thank you.

 

[bigcalidave]

Personally...if you were to venture down this route, I would think that you may want to do something similar to the oil filter suppressors. Have a durable thread adapter act as the registered piece and 3D print the disposable aspect of the suppressor. This way, you only have to pay for one stamp yet can replace the rest of the can at will.

You actually can't replace the filter part at will, which really ruins the point of the adapter. Even when you try to follow the law and do everything right, the ATF still wants to make things as difficult as possible.

http://i.imgur.com/Eh4Pe.jpg