'Deep Survival'

[Leif Stremberg]

Implicit learning/memory vs Explicit learning/memory.
Fascinating stuff.
The story about the Army Ranger who pushed away his rescuer in the rapids with a laugh, then drowned. The way the mind works is really beyond description. People will actually yearn to be in life threatening situations to such an extent that they fail to realize the real possibility of not making it back. Or the brain starting to shut down becuause it does not know where it is.
I don't think the writing style is all that, but the content is great. Can't put it down.

I am dealing with this in a young soldier. He wants to deploy so bad. He even gets upset that other soldiers get to deploy. While he has to stay behind. I tell him every time, that being in life threatening situation everyday of your life. Isn't all that it is cracked up to be. But he is young and inexperienced. Young, dumb and full............!!!

 

[WhyteCheddar]

How about those who have had concern for their own well being in regard to being 'lost'. What would be considered by the casual observer to be a life threatening situation?
How did you deal with it from an intellectual standpoint?

 

[Father of four]

Am currently reading this book for a class. It is by Laurence Gonzales and is geared more towards wilderness survival than any kink of SHTF stuff but I find the book fascinating and thought I'd pass the info along.
The Author is searching for reasons why some people survive and why some don't.
It would be interesting to discuss some of the perspectives with any of my fellow 'NWfirearmers' who want to take the time to read it.

Why some survive? From a husband and father of multiple children perspective.

S___ Hitting The Fan would be tough. I am a strong, decently smart and ingenuitive man. I can survive alone in the wild. Would I choose to if I knew my family was about to parish? No, I don't think so. A husband or a parent like myself has more to live for then just themselves alone I guess. I am sure that would be the driving force in my survival. I have lived many years within my loving close-nit family. If TSHTF and we had to relocate into the wilderness I would do everything I possibly could to insure their survival. I would gladly give up mine for theirs.

 

[Sabertooth]

I am dealing with this in a young soldier. He wants to deploy so bad. He even gets upset that other soldiers get to deploy. While he has to stay behind. I tell him every time, that being in life threatening situation everyday of your life. Isn't all that it is cracked up to be. But he is young and inexperienced. Young, dumb and full............!!!

As I was told. Don't worry about the bullets and stuff flying by you. You will not hear the one that kills you. Young, dumb and full of----. Been there.
Lost?? Keep your witts about you, take a deep a breath and think. Example; Three Sisters Wilderness area. You are on the west side of the mountians. North of you is the McKienze highway. South of you is a cliff. West is the Eugene. You are not lost, Don't panic, just get ready for a long hike through some rough country.

 

[WhyteCheddar]

As I was told. Don't worry about the bullets and stuff flying by you. You will not hear the one that kills you. Young, dumb and full of----. Been there.
Lost?? Keep your witts about you, take a deep a breath and think. Example; Three Sisters Wilderness area. You are on the west side of the mountians. North of you is the McKienze highway. South of you is a cliff. West is the Eugene. You are not lost, Don't panic, just get ready for a long hike through some rough country.

Well since 'you are not lost' then the situation is not germain to the question. ;-)
I think the responses are interesting.
In response to the idea of 'if you are lost' most of the responses are similar to 'I am not lost'.
The author describes a condition of confusion where the subject in trouble either gets there, or deepens the situation because the brain cannot conceive a result beyond that which it is conditioned to expect ie, not being lost.
So, while all the revelations of growing up in the woods etc... (which are great) are outside the scope of the question a bit.
It might be in how 'lost' is defined. Lets clarify the question a little and suppose being lost for the sake of the discussion contains an element of disapating hope or sincere concern for your well being.
Has anyone ever been in such a difficult situation?

 

[Sabertooth]

Well since 'you are not lost' then the situation is not germain to the question. ;-)
I think the responses are interesting.
In response to the idea of 'if you are lost' most of the responses are similar to 'I am not lost'.
The author describes a condition of confusion where the subject in trouble either gets there, or deepens the situation because the brain cannot conceive a result beyond that which it is conditioned to expect ie, not being lost.
So, while all the revelations of growing up in the woods etc... (which are great) are outside the scope of the question a bit.
It might be in how 'lost' is defined. Lets clarify the question a little and suppose being lost for the sake of the discussion contains an element of disapating hope or sincere concern for your well being.
Has anyone ever been in such a difficult situation?

Understood.
When I was with the Oregon Mountian Rescue team I met several people who met your defenition. Unfortunatly each year many people go out into the woods and find themselves lost.

 

[WhyteCheddar]

Understood.
When I was with the Oregon Mountian Rescue team I met several people who met your defenition. Unfortunatly each year many people go out into the woods and find themselves lost.

IMHO, it is entirely possible to become 'lost' in a familiar wilderness area. I think some of the case studies in the book had a mind set of knowing where they were, or what they were doing yet ended up in life threattening situations anyway.
Interesting subject indeed.
Someone should compile a book of debriefings of all those folks OMR finds alive. It would be interesting reading.

 

[dkk73]

I read this book several years ago and found it very insightful. Have also since read some of Laurence Gonzales' other writings on general aviation (excellent).

A few thoughts/take away points:

(1) A lot of examples (Army Ranger in the rapids, snowmobilers in avalanche, etc) make a big point about our forming the wrong emotional associations with risk. Taking risks = fun if the experiences you've had have protected you from real downside.

(2) Humor as coping and a survival marker. Roughly recalling his hypothesis, perhaps humor allows you to mentally address reality without the full measure of despair. The alternative often being denial or rationalization (easy to see how others are rationalizing, harder to see it in yourself).

(3) Studying examples. The USAF survival school does this, systematically, to learn from example. I liked that about Gonzales' book. A lot of stuff you find on survival is just opinion.

(4) It's a personal thing for him; he's spent a lot of time and thought about it. And his own family's story is interesting (e.g. WWII bomber pilot dad who became an anatomy professor).

Anyhow, a great read, and a great Xmas gift for someone who likes this kind of conversation,

Cheers,
David

 

[Sabertooth]

Lost. Confusion, irrational decisons, hypothermia and no idea of what to do. Brain accept's death is the only way out.
Then there is Bushmadeness. The person who is lost will hide from the rescurers. The person's mind has turned the rescuer's into something to be feared and avoided at all costs.

 

[theficklefinger]

I guess the book is a revelation for people that never leave the house..it was like reading stories about people drawing Glocks and shooting themselves in the foot...that I guess isa real concern, and big news for people that don't shoot, but pretty much laughable for guys that actually shoot guns.

This book goes down as a waste of money for me...it's like it was written by someone that had never put themselves at risk, talking to people that just rescue the dumbest of people...so for anyone with a skill set and brains, it was off base, and not germane to those that can actually not pee our pants when it starts to rain outside.