Dealers won't do background checks.

[DuneHopper]

I have never seen so much bs on this site. Are we free people or are we not? Are we going to let 2 leftist lesbos run our lives? Just asking Deadeye.

Can you explain, sorry was not sure what you were getting at in the post ?

 

[etrain16]

I have never seen so much bs on this site. Are we free people or are we not? Are we going to let 2 leftist lesbos run our lives? Just asking Deadeye.

So what exactly are you suggesting? I know some folks say they "won't comply", and they can certainly do that. But even free people live under laws. Free doesn't mean anarchy. A lot of people here fought to stop this law, but it's here. So, people can choose not to comply, but by your second offense, if you're caught, you'll be charged with a felony. And saying "I'm free" won't keep you out of jail. The government, like it or not, has considerable resources to punish and incarcerate people they want to make an example of.

Our only real recourse at this time is to hopefully gain control in the legislature and somehow, some way, remove this law from the books. Until then, I see 3 options - comply, stop doing private sales altogether, or don't comply and risk a felony conviction.

 

[308]

Fear the mentally disabled feelers who have done this to you 'under penalty of law'

 

[Just Jim]

So what exactly are you suggesting? I know some folks say they "won't comply", and you they can certainly do that. But even free people live under laws. Free doesn't mean anarchy. A lot of people here fought to stop this law, but it's here. So, people can choose not to comply, but by your second offense, if you're caught, you'll be charged with a felony. And saying "I'm free" won't keep you out of jail. The government, like it or not, has considerable resources to punish and incarcerate people they want to make an example of.

Our only real recourse at this time is to hopefully gain control in the legislature and somehow, some way, remove this law from the books. Until then, I see 3 options - comply, stop doing private sales altogether, or don't comply and risk a felony conviction.

People would feel far better about following the law if the law was made under normal circumstances. Calling a phoney emergency to pass a law is criminal unto itself and the criminals are still making more laws.

 

[DuneHopper]

People would feel far better about following the law if the law was made under normal circumstances. Calling a phoney emergency to pass a law is criminal unto itself and the criminals are still making more laws.

I agree, after the 8th would mark the first time in my life I am taking a serious issue like SB941 and choosing my own stance regardless of the laws. So I take very serious my choice to not comply. Etrain I get your point as well, but I see only two immediate choices. Comply and eventually everyone will do as they are told. That is exactly what happened decades ago with Conceal Carry many said they would conceal anyways and now none do without the permit/lic . Our do not comply and hope everyone you know does the same. They simply cant monitor or arrest millions, and hopefully if business was as usual it would show the law does not work.

Slavery was legal once and there was laws to protect slave owners, that changed by acts of courage not compliance. There is not enough education out there to get people excited about repealing 941 . I have seen first hand people prefer their 9-5 and comfy couches then a dirty fight for rights.

 

[Bajablast]

From what I have been able to find, the Sheriffs in various Counties here in Oregon have stated that they will not be enforcing this new law. There may be more, but that is what I have found so far. The info below took me about 15 minutes to find.

There are more Sheriffs that will not enforce this law. Do some research people, this is not going to go well for the State of Oregon.

From Sheriff Corey Falls of Jackson County:

https://www.facebook.com/JacksonCountySheriff/posts/849430745119455
---------------------------------------------------
From Sheriff Steve Rogers of Wallowa County:

http://www.wallowa.com/local_news/20150519/gun-law-spawns-confusion-resistance
.--------------------------------------------------
Sheriff Glenn Palmer of Grant County:

http://gunsnfreedom.com/oregon-sheriff-refuses-to-enforce-gun-control-push/4858
---------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------
The world is full of Kings and Queens, who blind your eyes and steal your dreams. It's Heaven and Hell.....

 

[Bajablast]

Here is a better list:

http://www.oregonfirearms.org/counties-pro-gun-ordinances-proclamations-resolutions-letters

-------------------------------------------------------------------
The world is full of Kings and Queens, who blind your eyes and steal your dreams. It's Heaven and Hell.....

 

[Charliehorse]

But even free people live under laws. Free doesn't mean anarchy.

So what do you suggest when a little law by small minded politicians (that will be soon gone), overstate their authority against a really big law (2A) that has been bedrock since it was ratified over 200 years ago? Violate the big law?

 

[Charliehorse]

Here is a better list:

http://www.oregonfirearms.org/counties-pro-gun-ordinances-proclamations-resolutions-letters

-------------------------------------------------------------------
The world is full of Kings and Queens, who blind your eyes and steal your dreams. It's Heaven and Hell.....

Thanx for that link!

Really proud of our Sheriffs!



WHEREAS, the criminal element does not follow the laws currently in place, therefore,
creating additional restrictive laws will do nothing to increase compliance, but will
increase the work load on law enforcement; and

 

[etrain16]

So what do you suggest when a little law by small minded politicians (that will be soon gone), overstate their authority against a really big law (2A) that has been bedrock since it was ratified over 200 years ago? Violate the big law?

I thought I was clear in my answer. It's your choice. But choose not to comply, and this little law by small minded politicians, can and just may, land you in jail, with your firearms rights stripped away in the process. Like it or not, it's law as of tomorrow. Until it gets changed or removed, it will be you vs. the government - care to guess who will win? UBC's have already been upheld by the Supreme Court, even in light of the 2nd amendment, so, as far as they are concerned, they won't be shooting down a law like SB941.

But please, be my guest, go ahead and choose not to comply, that is your prerogative. But if you do and find yourself facing a felony after your second violation, I think it will take more than just your assertion of the 2nd amendment to fight these folks while you try to stay out of jail.

Like it or not, they have, for good or for bad, won this round. I'm hopeful that it can and will change in the future.

 

[308]

How will anyone know if a person does a private transfer? My guess is the only way they would is if some law enforcement agency was bored and wanted to waste their time on a sting operation.

IMHO, private sales done right are much the same as concealed carry done right.

 

[ob1]

How will anyone know if a person does a private transfer? My guess is the only way they would is if some law enforcement agency was bored and wanted to waste their time on a sting operation.

They won't unless the firearm is transferred after today. The required transfer gives it a dated post-941 legacy and therefore proof of a non-compliant transfer if it's in the possession of someone other than the listed buyer in that transfer.

Another scenario;
A post-941 seller gets himself into trouble with the law. As is SOP, the seller bargains for a reduced or vacated charge in exchange for giving up his buyers. In simpler terms...the seller becomes a snitch.

 

[etrain16]

For those that want to make an example, they won't have to look far or really even set up a sting. Chances are that many Oregonians are completely oblivious to SB941 or what it means to them. Want to catch someone, wait until Grandma sets up an estate sale after her husband passes away - she throws out a few of his old shotguns and a .22lr rifle. No criminal intent, just an old woman trying to make a few bucks on things she can no longer use.

Now, take Prozanski/Kotek/Hoyle/Bloomberg's hit men, and have them troll the estate sale ads. They show up at Granny's on a Friday morning and make an offer on that single shot shotgun. She sells it to them and they nail her law-breaking a$$ on the spot.

While that may sound ridiculous, knowing the people behind bills like this, the kind of people that would issue a citation to a young girl running a lemonade stand, you can damn well bet they'll be looking. The easiest for them to find, and make examples of, will be the people that are totally oblivious to 941 and what it means.

 

[Hayshaker]

Thanx for that link!

Really proud of our Sheriffs!

View attachment 251445

WHEREAS, the criminal element does not follow the laws currently in place, therefore,
creating additional restrictive laws will do nothing to increase compliance, but will
increase the work load on law enforcement; and

Sure can't say much about our sheriff in Morrow county. Really sad as I've supported him 100%. Will really try to find out why he has not made any commitment at all

 

[Charliehorse]

They won't unless the firearm is transferred after today. The required transfer gives it a dated post-941 legacy and therefore proof of a non-compliant transfer if it's in the possession of someone other than the listed buyer in that transfer.

Another scenario;
A post-941 seller gets himself into trouble with the law. As is SOP, the seller bargains for a reduced or vacated charge in exchange for giving up his buyers. In simpler terms...the seller becomes a snitch.

But NICS destroys their record of the background check correct? So there is no further tracking of that serial number. Or did 941 modify that so as to keep a permanent record?
And since many Sheriff's won't comply with 941, one who wishes to do a private transfer can do it in their jurisdiction.
.
The Firearms Unit provides a service to all Federally Licensed Firearms dealers in the state of Oregon by conducting the Firearms Instant Check backgrounds on persons attempting to purchase a firearm (ORS 166.412). Records of the transactions are kept for five years. This database is exempt from public inspection. The funding for this Unit is based on a current user fee of $10.00 per transaction. The Firearms Unit is open from 8am to 10pm every day except Thanksgiving and Christmas as mandated by law. The unit is also responsible for conducting background checks for private party sales at gun shows.

The Firearms Unit is responsible for processing stolen gun checks against the stolen weapons files in LEDS and NCIC for the dealers and any private citizen requesting this service. There is no fee for processing the stolen gun checks.
http://www.oregon.gov/OSP/Pages/ID/fics.aspx

 

[Charliehorse]

But NICS destroys their record of the background check correct?

More reading:

What happens to the background check records?

After the background check, paper and/or electronic records then exist in three places for the background check:

At the gun dealer
At the Oregon State Police (FICS)
At the FBI (NICS)

1. At the gun dealer

After the background check, the dealer is required to attach the thumbprint form to the ATF form 4473 and then keep those records for 20 years (U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) requirement).

2. At the Oregon State Police (FICS)

At a recent Oregon Senate Judiciary Committee hearing, the Director of the Oregon State Police (OSP) Identification Services Section told the Committee that Oregon law allows OSP to retain the background check information for up to 5 years for all the transactions, but that there is an OSP policy to purge approved transactions after 10 days – unless the initial check indicated there was something that might cause the transaction to be denied.

The OSP FICS web site indicates that "Records of the transactions are kept for five years," but again, recent testimony indicates an OSP policy states the approved transactions are to be purged after 10 days.

3. At the FBI (NICS)

As a part of the background check, the Oregon State Police contact the FBI/ATF National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS). Federal law requires that the NICS "must destroy all identifying information on allowed [approved] transactions prior to the start of the next NICS operational day." Likewise, NICS can't retain a record of delayed or denied firearm transactions if they are successfully appealed.

http://oregoncatalyst.com/26450-records-retention-oregon-firearms-background-checks.html

 

[DuneHopper]

I noticed the last few days on Armslist locally and elsewhere online sellers asking a premium on firearms.
I guess many are hoping last few days they could get maximum dollar before it becomes harder to sell and buy.

 

[Norm0931]

We just had the ATF come in last week and do there inspection, and one of the things that we asked him was what are the requirements on doing a f-f transfer and he said the ATF has no requirement and the State of Oregon is skating on thin ice as they don't have any way set up to record a f-f transfer and we could not use the ATF form to document the transfer. In short they got there hands slapped by the feds.

This is flat out wrong. The ATF has guidance letters out that explain exactly how they want dealers to handle private sales through an FFL. In fact, they sent out a reminder letter last week to FFLs in Oregon.

ATF has said they want the dealer to have the purchaser fill out the 4473 and run the background check. If the purchaser is approved, then the dealer will intake the firearm from the seller and transfer it to the purchaser. This ensures the transfer can actually take place before the dealer takes possession of the item. In addition, Oregon law requires dealers fill out a user gun transfer form and submit it to local law enforcement.

For reference: ATF Proc. 2013-1 https://www.atf.gov/file/56336/download
& ATF Letter https://www.atf.gov/file/56331/download

As of today, FICS took away everything they want for a private party transfer except for the seller's name. I still don't understand why they need that information, but it's on there.

 

[ARKLITE881South]

Thanx for that link!

Really proud of our Sheriffs!

View attachment 251445

WHEREAS, the criminal element does not follow the laws currently in place, therefore,
creating additional restrictive laws will do nothing to increase compliance, but will
increase the work load on law enforcement; and

Don't forget about the Commissioners, who ALSO supported the sheriffs. Linn County is a prime example

 

[joken]

Did a BG check in Salem recently on a out of state purchase. The shop charged $40+10 and the owner went on and on about how much work was involved. Seems to me $40 for about 15 minutes was damn good pay.