Dealer Refused to Sell Gun?

[Humpyslayer]

I work at a shop part time and I've had to refuse to sell a gun for the same reason. It's a CYA situation for the employee. Think about it, the guy has to fill out paper work that can be looked at by the ATF and has to call the FBI to get the NICS number. Me personally...I'm not going to do anything when selling a gun to make either agency have a reason to investigate or punish me or my employer, especially when the first question on the form is "are you the actual buyer". Or for that matter, he could have lost his job.

I totally get though that you were just trying to buy her a gift and it shouldn't be that big of a deal but unfortunately it's how things go.

 

[buick455]

I've been hassled a bit at a gun show for handing my friend cash for a gun he wanted and the lady doing the paper work asked a couple of times if he was buying the gun for me I said no and he got his gun an owed me cash plus beer for interest.

I have also bought my girlfriend a p22 to shoot at a local gun shop and stated exactly that and the person doing the paper work merely asked if the gun was going to be in my possession and I said yes and that I was trying to get her into my hobby

 

[clearconscience]

I was at a gun shop and these three guys were looking at Remington shotguns. It was an elderly guy and two younger guys that looked like they knew their way around a meth kitchen.
One of the younger guys was talking the old man into the Remington and the young guy told the clerk we'll take it. And then he said actually were going to buy 3 of them. And the clerk asked him to get their IDs out and he said Oh No! pointed at the old guy and said he's buying all 3 of them.
I was thinking there was no way, and the clerk looked at them funny and hesitantly said OK.
I don't want to call the place out, but it rhymed with Kieth's.......Oops.

 

[Will]

I think many of us have seen a farther with his son in a gun store. The son is trying out different rifles/shotguns to see what fits. In the end the Dad buys the firearm for the son. Wouldn't that be considered a straw purchase? I've never seen a salesman blink at this. The last time I did this my son was 17, 6'-3", we got him a new hunting rifle. While holding the rifle he said "this is the one I want". The saleman wrote it up with out a question.

As for the situation that Clear mentioned that has red flag all over it. I imagine that is pretty common, get grandpa, the girlfriend or someone to buy what they can't get on there own.

 

[TCOV]

If you want to buy a firearm for a gift to a family member just buy it with your money. That makes you the actual buyer. Keeping in mind some state laws may differ, it is legal to give a firearm as a gift to someone who is not a prohibited person. The age of the one receiving the gift may prohibit actual ownership but may possess as a loaner in some circumstances. Just refrain from having these discussions in front of the salesman as it can make them nervous. It's none of their business. Remember the phrase " too much information ". "Strawman" involves someone usuing money given them by a prohibited person to make the buy and do the paperwork.

 

[Beagle]

it might just be the way i feel about it. but the guy more than likely had seen you as a smart axx since he had put it away and you asked to see it again and how you liked pink.when the laws are the way they are and he doesn't know you? he didn't hesitate to void the sale all together. more than likely he was making a point and possibly teaching you a lesson about gun laws and to not piss him off. if you were atf the point would of been taken as well this guy is a straight shooter and we don't have to worry about him.
sorry for the ramble it's late lol.

 

[WhyteCheddar]

You guys say he is a jerk for not selling you the gun(s)...but then you guys fail to realize that ATF agents do this kind of crap all the time to dealers then bust them for breaking the law.

He cannot KNOWINGLY sell you a firearm that is for another person...just as it is illegal for you to buy one for another person (as pointed out by ORBrit via the ATF form). Reguardless if it is for your spouse or a gift for a close friend or family member- you cannot purchase a gun for another person. PERIOD.

Now if you buy it, and realize that the pink Walther P22 doesn't match your shoes or makes your butt look fat when you put it on- then you decide to give it to your wife, that is an entirely different matter.

Unless I am mistaken, I believe you are incorrect. You cannot buy a gun then give it to someone who you know is not allowed by law to posses a gun. You cannot take money from someone who cannot by law posses a gun, and buy a gun for them. Any lawful person can buy a gun and gift it to another lawful individual, or sell it to them for that matter (some laws may vary by state).

 

[Riot]

Unless I am mistaken, I believe you are incorrect. You cannot buy a gun then give it to someone who you know is not allowed by law to posses a gun. You cannot take money from someone who cannot by law posses a gun, and buy a gun for them. Any lawful person can buy a gun and gift it to another lawful individual, or sell it to them for that matter (some laws may vary by state).

Gifting the firearm and buying it for someone is completely different...again, with the way the ATF is I can't blame the store guy for telling them to bugger off. The ATF form is very clear....there is no "check here if this firearm is a gift" box.

You buy the gun then you can gift the gun...I'm not debating anything about that, that is perfectly legal (as long as you obtain the firearm legally and the person you are gifting it to is legally able to own said firearm). Nevertheless, the clerk overheard the conversation...

"Hun, buy that for me pleeeease?"

Lets just say this was an ATF set-up...you don't see where the guy can get screwed? I do...you have to cover your own rear end first and foremost.

 

[Redcap]

You guys say he is a jerk for not selling you the gun(s)...but then you guys fail to realize that ATF agents do this kind of crap all the time to dealers then bust them for breaking the law.

He cannot KNOWINGLY sell you a firearm that is for another person...just as it is illegal for you to buy one for another person (as pointed out by ORBrit via the ATF form). Reguardless if it is for your spouse or a gift for a close friend or family member- you cannot purchase a gun for another person. PERIOD.

Now if you buy it, and realize that the pink Walther P22 doesn't match your shoes or makes your butt look fat when you put it on- then you decide to give it to your wife, that is an entirely different matter.

The **** you can't. Gifting a gun is perfectly legal.

 

[MountainBear]

The bottom line is that you gave the guy enough reason not to sell you the gun. And to be honest, in that situation, I wouldn't have either. After he said that he could not put it on your form as he knew it was for someone else, you tried to buffalo him by saying that you would like it and that pink was your color. When you said that you would buy it instead of her, as far as he knows, your doing it because she's a felon (not that she is, but he doesn't know that) or otherwise not legal to buy the gun.

Again the bottom line is that the guy has to protect his license (or in this case his businesses license). Maybe asking you to leave was a bit harsh, but if you tried that in the shop I used to work at, I would have asked you to leave as well. Its simply a liability issue, so don't take it personal.

Besides, you went the next day and got your guns, so no harm no foul...

 

[Buano]

He was obviously afraid you were a undercover officer testing him to see if he would sell to a straw-man purchaser. The gain from the sale would have been nice but the risk to him if he was prosecuted, even if he won, would have ben unbelievable. He was simply covering his ***. Yes, it appears he was a jerk, but fear of the feds is real & understandable.

 

[glockguy]

A few weeks ago I was at a gun show helping my wife's brother pick out a gun to buy ( his first one) He Went to HS here in Albany OR and then moved to WA after he graduated for the navy. Well He moved back to OR after his 4 years was up. He found a gun he liked XD 40, anyways when he stared to fill out the paper work he didn't have the proper address on his OR ID, and his WA one with his last address so they wouldn't let him buy it he was pretty bummed, So i just said oh well took the money, walked around the table came back and said hey i want that gun the lady smiled and laughed and said ok fill this out. Got the gun walked out the door. got in the car and gave it to him. simple as that. and yes his has his OR ID with the correct addy on it now

 

[MountainBear]

The definition of a straw purchase is buying a gun for someone who is not legal to buy it. Since your buddy was not an Oregon resident, he wasn't legal. Do you really want to brag about committing a crime on an open forum?

 

[pogi]

I use to work in liquor stores in college and this situation is the same thing. Person A would come up with items and cash, I would card person A, GTG. Person B would then hand Person A money right in front of me forcing me to card Person B. Person B wouldn't have ID so no sale. All they had to do was change money outside out of sight and I wouldn't know a thing about what went on.

The gun purchase in question seems to be the same situation. Granted, you didn't know you wanted a pink gun at the time but now you know better concerning the encounter.

 

[glockguy]

The definition of a straw purchase is buying a gun for someone who is not legal to buy it. Since your buddy was not an Oregon resident, he wasn't legal. Do you really want to brag about committing a crime on an open forum?

he IS an Oregon resident he was just stationed in WA for the navy but the addy that's on his OR Driver License is the one he had when he first when into the navy and that's why he was unable to get it, because he no longer LIVED at that address he lives here in OR has an OR address. simple i didnt break any laws or rules.

 

[tonedef89]

he IS an Oregon resident he was just stationed in WA for the navy but the addy that's on his OR Driver License is the one he had when he first when into the navy and that's why he was unable to get it, because he no longer LIVED at that address he lives here in OR has an OR address. simple i didnt break any laws or rules.

I had a similar situation at a gunshop after moving into a new apartment across town. The salesman just pulled up the DMV website, changed my address online, printed out the receipt and completed the check. All was good to go, took my gun home that day and got the sticker for my DL at my new address in a few days.

 

[MountainBear]

he IS an Oregon resident he was just stationed in WA for the navy but the addy that's on his OR Driver License is the one he had when he first when into the navy and that's why he was unable to get it, because he no longer LIVED at that address he lives here in OR has an OR address. simple i didnt break any laws or rules.

Close enough to where I wouldn't be advertising it, but hey its your life.

 

[Hawaiian]

she gives me the look and says I want it, well i cant say no to her wanting a gun haha! So I say we will take them both and he hands her a form, and I say no it will go under my name because I have a CPL and want to take it home today. He says I cant sell you a gun for her,

And if you had been an ATF agent, he would have been busted if he had of just smiled and completed the sale. You attempted to use your CPL to buy and take home a gun that he knew was for someone else. Yes he was an Ahole for the way he handled it, but he was right for refusing to sell you the gun. She could have filled out the paper work and you could have come back to pick up her gun.

This is different from when I took my 12 year old son to buy him a 22 rifle or pistol. I am the legal owner of the gun and keep it for him to use. When he reaches legal age, it will then be gifted to him, if and when I feel he is responsible enough to have it in his possession.

 

[glockguy]

Yuuuup that it is and nothing was wrong about it.