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Dealer Refused to Sell Gun?

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by cbzdel, Feb 18, 2010.

  1. cbzdel

    cbzdel Tacoma, WA Member

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    This might be the wrong section but I am sure it happened because of some laws.

    This is an older story but I wanted to post it. I was at Sportsmans Warehouse in Federal Way, WA with the wife. I was going to buy a Ruger SR9 for myself and while filling out the paperwork my wife noticed a pink Walther p22 and say asks to see it. After I am done filling out the paperwork she gives me the look and says I want it, well i cant say no to her wanting a gun haha! So I say we will take them both and he hands her a form, and I say no it will go under my name because I have a CPL and want to take it home today. He says I cant sell you a gun for her, I say we are married it goes in the same safe what the difference. He says I know its for her so I cant sell it to you. I ask to see the gun and I hold it in my hand and say I like this gun I will buy it for me, pink is my color. He takes the Ruger SR9 and the Walther p22 off the counter and puts them back on the shelf and comes back over and takes my paperwork and rips it in half and says sir this hassle is not worth a sale in my book I am going to have to ask you to leave.

    Really I just tried to spend $1000 at you store and you kick me out because I want to buy a pink gun? I was not rude nor did I show anger towards the man.

    Just wondering if anyone else has ran into this problem before??

    I have since given up on trying to ever buy a firearm from there again, to bad its such a good store and still need to go there for other items though..
     
  2. elsie

    elsie Way over there on the left Well-Known Member

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    He was probably concerned about the store and himself getting nailed for a straw man purchase. He probably doesn't know you aside from being a customer and since you indicated you were buying the gun for someone else in his presence, it likely put doubt in his mind. I bet if you went back there, he probably wouldn't even remember you.

    I own a couple of firearms that the wifely unit uses (and I rarely touch) as well as one that my son uses. They are retained in my possession but they have access to them as well. But I never mentioned my reasoning in front of the sellers.

    elsie
     
  3. rdb241

    rdb241 Puyallup Washington Gold Supporter Gold Supporter

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    He thought you were doing a strawman purchase right in front of him....:laugh:
     
  4. ORBrit

    ORBrit Eugene Member

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    There's a fine line with straw purchases. The laws aren't well defined but there are some examples that help explain the differences.

    As far as I understand it, you can legally purchase a handgun and gift it to anyone who can legally possess a handgun - i.e. not a felon or under 18.

    If you'd bought both without your wife there it probably would not have been an issue at all.
    The fact she was there, and picked the gun showed the intent. At that point the dealer is forced to play by the rules.
    Even though your ID shows you have the same name, there is no way to verify that you are indeed married. (to quote Bill Engvall "people know we're married by the look on my face, and the stoop in my shoulders!")
    Here's an example from another forum
    http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulletin/879934-post25.html

    You have to understand that the dealers are being audited randomly and they can't make exceptions for fear of losing their license.



    This is similar in a way to you picking out the gun and filling out the form 4473 and your wife paying for it on her credit card - BATF would consider this a straw purchase. Ridiculous huh?!
     
  5. ORBrit

    ORBrit Eugene Member

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    Also by filling in the form, you'd be effectively lying right infront of the dealer!
     
  6. pakrat57

    pakrat57 Reedsport Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    That's kinda odd/funny. When I purchased the wife's Taurus Mil. Pro for her I mentioned to the guy running the shop that it was a b-day present for the wife, he never batted an eye. I had thought that purchasing and gifting a firearm was legal and this kinda confirmed it since he happened to be a retired sheriff.
     
  7. ORBrit

    ORBrit Eugene Member

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    It's different when the wife is standing there basically saying "buy that one for me"
    Gifting is completely legal.
     
  8. FlyGuy

    FlyGuy Portland, OR Member

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    Wow what a jerk! Least he coulda done was sell you the SR9
     
  9. TCOV

    TCOV OLYMPIC PENINSULA Active Member

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    He would not be lying on the 4473 form if he was the one paying for it, that is the actual buyer. A straw purchase is when someone else not able to legally purchase gives you their money to purchase for them. If there is any doubt most dealers will refuse the sale to protect themselves.
     
  10. Trlsmn

    Trlsmn In Utero (Portland) Well-Known Member

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    He was in the right in protecting their FFL but as noted a gift to a relative is not a straw purchase, but they way he handled the situation was wrong and kind of a dick move. He could have turned you down without the drama and asking you to leave was over the top. I would make a complaint to Sportsman's management conceding that you understand that he could not sell it by his ignorance of the law, but the over exaggerated tearing up of a the paperwork and asking you to leave has shown you that Sportsman's warehouse doesn't want you as a customer, and that you as a consumer are happy to oblige them by shopping elsewhere.
     
  11. cbzdel

    cbzdel Tacoma, WA Member

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    Not a lie, I would be the one buying it, it would be put on the credit card that is in my wallet, it would go to my house, it would go in my safe.

    Because she would be the one using it 100% of the time does not make it not mine, in my opinion. Because when the day ends its still in my possession, at my house and in my safe. If she was buying it for personal protection I would probably have he put it in her name and wait the week for it, but this was strictly just a pinker..

    Also she does plan on getting her CPL, we are just waiting to change her last name until her license needs to be renewed, just trying to save a few bucks haha!
     
  12. ORBrit

    ORBrit Eugene Member

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    OK so technically you would be buying it. But the dealer for some reason was being unreasonable about this.

    I can see their cause for suspicion too, especially if your wife doesn't even have ID that shows you have the same last name!
    That would raise red flags at any dealer I think!
    If your wife had a CPL then I doubt the dealer would have reacted this way, even if you still wanted to fill out the paperwork.
     
  13. cbzdel

    cbzdel Tacoma, WA Member

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    That is what I would of expected, if the dealer looked at her ID, I just said I would take it and leave her out of it because I am not paying several hundred bucks for something I can not take home today :bluelaugh:

    Thing is we went to a actual gun shop the next day and found the same two guns, bought them both under my CPL and not a single question asked and I saved about $50 compared to the prices at Sportsmans Warehouse to.
     
  14. ORBrit

    ORBrit Eugene Member

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    Glad it worked out.

    Sounds like a good reason to avoid Sportsman's from now on!

    Our rules are different here in Oregon - no waiting period for non CHL holders, but I have a similar situation in that my background checks take about 1-4 hours compared to 10 minutes for my wife, as I'm a UK citizen.

    My local gun shop has let my wife complete the paperwork and purchase for a gun they knew was for me, while I was there - but that's more because they know me.
    I've purchased in the past, still have my CHL and am an active member there and purchase there regularly when I'm by myself.
     
  15. crosse

    crosse Bellevue Active Member

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    +1. it was a judgement call to not sell you the pink p22, but the tearing up of the forms and the dismissal was totally uncalled for. i would send a complaint to sportsman's management.

    This is why I don't like buying guns at sport super stores. ben's in renton is alright. the guys at fed way for the most part are good guys to deal with. i like dj's in bothell the best (but too far for me to drive up for just a gander). i buy most of my new guns from this married couple out of Mississippi just bc they're wonderful people to deal with on the phone or email.
     
  16. Riot

    Riot Benton County, Washington Well-Known Member

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    You guys say he is a jerk for not selling you the gun(s)...but then you guys fail to realize that ATF agents do this kind of crap all the time to dealers then bust them for breaking the law.

    He cannot KNOWINGLY sell you a firearm that is for another person...just as it is illegal for you to buy one for another person (as pointed out by ORBrit via the ATF form). Reguardless if it is for your spouse or a gift for a close friend or family member- you cannot purchase a gun for another person. PERIOD.

    Now if you buy it, and realize that the pink Walther P22 doesn't match your shoes or makes your butt look fat when you put it on- then you decide to give it to your wife, that is an entirely different matter.
     
  17. cbzdel

    cbzdel Tacoma, WA Member

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    here is what I dont understand. what makes the buyer of a gun?

    I was the buyer obviously because I was paying for it, the wife wanted the gun but did not need to own it she just wanted to to be able to shoot it when she wanted to.

    So was I buying the gun for her or was I buying the gun for myself and thinking ahead that I would possibly allow her to use it?

    Seems the only way I could be buying it for her is if I went to the store, bought the gun under my name, then gave it to her and never thought twice about it.


    BUT.. This is making me think about that guy that just got busted because he was a felon and his wife possessed a couple guns, and that put him in possession of them as well. Whats the way of getting around this, background check both couples of all married couples, also prior to getting married do a background check and if one is a fellon make the other release all firearms..

    Too many laws make my head hurt :bluelaugh:
     
  18. onearmedswordsman

    onearmedswordsman Hillsboro, OR Member

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    Bad for business, but good for conscience. Cut him some slack. We are all under a lot of pressure from unending regulations. I admit I have a tendency to rub people the wrong way, while still remaining "courteous". Maybe he did not find your "pink" comment funny, and just gave him a good excuse to not potentially get himself in trouble. It is just hard for you to see it because you were at the opposite side of the counter.
     
  19. Atroxus

    Atroxus Marysville, WA Member

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    Washington is a community property state, so I believe even if you buy it for you, it is still your wife's also and vice versa.

    Personally I would write a letter to the manager and/or owner of the store. It might not help but it couldn't hurt.
     
  20. cbzdel

    cbzdel Tacoma, WA Member

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    For the record I am not trying to cause any issues here.. Just starting something which happened to me a months back. Nothing against the guy, at first it seemed as an inconvenience and I was kinda pissed but it saved me some cash in the long run so I am not bothered by it one bit.

    The only way it bothers me was that he ripped up my papers and kicked me out. He could of just said no and explained himself and I would of understood and sold me the gun I wanted but he took it a little to far and it just made me unwilling to purchase a gun from then again, their loss not mine.