Dangerous escalation between China and Japan

[Burt Gummer]

At least the stock market is doing very well. Companies that sell Chinese goods primarily are doing great - Costco, Walmart; ones that tried to sell some American goods like Sears are due for bankruptcy any day now.

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/...-of-an-absolutely-massive-stock-market-bubble

 

[cookie]

At least the stock market is doing very well. Companies that sell Chinese goods primarily are doing great - Costco, Walmart; ones that tried to sell some American goods like Sears are due for bankruptcy any day now.

15 Signs That We Are Near The Peak Of An Absolutely Massive Stock Market Bubble

You bad!!!

 

[cookie]

I am sure the Chinese haven't forgot the kindness Japan has shown them during WWII

 

[billdeserthills]

Awww China just wants to have their very own air defense identification zone like the big boys have, it sounds soo cute

 

[skey]

KAL 007 anyone?

 

[Nutz503]

I find it interesting Japan who was sneaky and lied and then killed thousands of our boys gets away in history with honor, yet we are told to forget what occurred, and even are called racist if we show disdainment today towards the Japanese. Yet we are also told we must feel bad and apologies for locking up the Japanese during ww2 in internment camps.
I would like to see where Japan has ever issued a public apology for what they did to us and China.
America does some bad things and it is often because we end up helping other who will tell us to F-off later. Like France is a prime example of how they treat America like dirt yet if not for us they would be speaking German.

Guess I am from the old school or you reap what you sow. Japan should have worked hard to be friends with Japan and made restitution to them as well. And we should be getting huge trade benefits from Japan, instead Japan owns 1/4 of American businesses. In waht was called in the 1980's the electronic Pearl Harbor.

I guess I get tired of handing our money to countries who never pay us back, so we forgive loans, I am tired of places like Japan crying when people do to them what they did to others. Germany paid a massive price for Hitlers crimes. Where was Japans price ever paid to anyone ?

I think Japan needs to make things right with China and stop their arrogance.

Who told you that you are to feel bad and apologize to Japanese? The u.s government felt bad because they detained American citizens. To have any disdain towards Japanese Americans in this day and age is completely ignorant and I would say borderline racist.

Did you see German Americans or Italian Americans displaced from their homes during war time? In case you forgot there was a war theater that involved those foreign countries as well.

Ever hear of the 442nd? Maybe you should read about them before you question the loyalties of the Japanese Americans during ww2? How many medal of honor recipients do you have in your family? If have 2. And they were fighting for their country while their families were taken from their homes with one suitcase and put in internment camps for several years. So yeah, in my opinion you should feel ashamed and be apologetic for the post you just wrote

 

[skey]

Who told you that you are to feel bad and apologize to Japanese? The u.s government felt bad because they detained American citizens. To have any disdain towards Japanese Americans in this day and age is completely ignorant and I would say borderline racist.

Did you see German Americans or Italian Americans displaced from their homes during war time? In case you forgot there was a war theater that involved those foreign countries as well.

Ever hear of the 442nd? Maybe you should read about them before you question the loyalties of the Japanese Americans during ww2? How many medal of honor recipients do you have in your family? If have 2. And they were fighting for their country while their families were taken from their homes with one suitcase and put in internment camps for several years. So yeah, in my opinion you should feel ashamed and be apologetic for the post you just wrote

That was a pretty bad chapter alright. I have met several Japanese Americans who were in WWII over the years. Great folks in a very bad time. Thanks for your families service and sacrifice.

 

[ATCclears]

<broken link removed>

Team Obama Changes Course, Appears to Accept China Air Defense Zone

Top Obama administration and Pentagon officials signaled a willingness to temporarily accept China's new, controversial air defense identification zone on Wednesday. Those officials expressed disapproval for the way in which the Asian power has flexed its muscles, and cautioned China not to implement the zone. But they also carved out wiggle room in which the United States and China ultimately could find common ground on the issue, indicating that they may be willing to live with the zone for now -- as long as China backs off its demand that all aircraft traveling through it check in first.

"It wasn't the declaration of the ADIZ that actually was destabilizing," said Army Gen. Martin Dempsey, America's highest-ranking military officer. "It was their assertion that they would cause all aircraft entering the ADIZ to report regardless of whether they were intending to enter into the sovereign airspace of China. And that is destabilizing."

That's a change from just a few days ago, when U.S. Vice President Joe Biden demanded that China take back its declaration of the zone. And it's another demonstration that China's recent decisions have forced the United States to tread carefully. On Wednesday, Biden met with Chinese President Xi Jinping in Beijing for more than five hours, according to a senior administration official. In brief public remarks midway through the marathon session, Biden didn't mention the air defense zone at all.

Japan, a vital American ally, has expressed fury over the Chinese move and ordered its commercial airliners not to provide information about their flight paths to the Chinese military. By contrast, the United States made a point of flying a pair of B-52s through it last week, but seems to have accepted that China will keep the zone in place indefinitely. U.S. officials have shifted their focus instead on preventing a potential military clash between Japan and China.

In meetings in Beijing on Wednesday, Biden laid out the U.S. position in detail, reiterating that the United States does not recognize the new zone and has deep concerns about it, a senior administration official said. Biden told Xi that the United States wants China to take steps to lower tensions in the region, avoid enforcement actions that could lead to crisis, and to establish communication with Japan and other countries in the region to avoid altercations, the administration official added. Privately, Biden did not call for the air defense identification zone it to be rolled back -- something administration officials had done Monday while Biden was visiting Japan. Instead, the vice president asked the Chinese leader to be careful about how his country operated the zone going forward.

"He indicated to Xi that we are looking to China to take steps as we move forward to lower tensions, to avoid enforcement actions that could lead to crisis, and to establish channels of communication with Japan, but also with their other neighbors to avoid the risk of mistake, miscalculation, accident or escalation," the official told reporters in Beijing.

Marie Harf, a State Department spokeswoman, said Wednesday that the United States does not recognize the zone and China "should not implement it." Administration officials said Biden's message reflects the White House's growing concerns that China's establishment of the air defense identification zone risks sparking a regional crisis. In the long term, the officials said, the United States wants China to eliminate the air defense entirely. With China already patrolling the zone with fighter jets, the officials said the White House was focused on preventing the growing tensions between Japan and China from getting worse. That includes temporary measures like pushing the two countries to establish a hotline designed to ensure that a miscommunication doesn't lead a clash between the two countries.

At the Pentagon, Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel and Dempsey, chairman of the Joint Chiefs, took a measured approach. They said the major issue isn't the creation of the zone itself, but the way China has handled it and the country's demand that aircraft entering the zone share their flight plans.

"It's not that the ADIZ itself is new or unique," Hagel said. "Our biggest concern is how it was done so unilaterally and so immediately without any consultation, or international consultation. That's not a wise course of action to take for any country."

Dempsey expanded on that, saying that the ADIZ the Chinese established isn't their sovereign airspace, but international airspace adjacent to it. The international norm for such an area, Dempsey said, is for aircraft to check in with the country declaring an ADIZ only if it intends to enter sovereign airspace afterward. Many other countries, including the United States, also have ADIZ areas established.

The remarks open the possibility that if China backs off its demand that all aircraft in the ADIZ share their flight plans, the United States could lighten up on China establishing a zone. That's unlikely to please Japan, however.

Hagel indirectly addressed that Wednesday. Despite calling China's rollout of the air-defense zone unwise, he also stressed the United States' growing relationship with the Chinese military. He advocated for the preservation of security and free shipping lanes for all players in the region, and sent a message to other U.S. allies in the region -- including Japan.

"It's important for China, Japan, South Korea, all the nations in this area to stay calm and responsible," he said. "These are combustible issues."

 

[Martini_Up]

Chinese, Japanese, dirty knees, look at these....

 

[3MTA3]

I think that Secretary of State Kerry may have to send them a stern letter on official letterhead unless he thinks that might anger or offend them.

^^ Current US foreign policy summed up in one sentence ^^

 

[2506]

A short "diplomatic" letter to the emperor reviewing the amount of US debt held by the Chicoms will blunt any real threat from the US. Oh, there will be bluster and chest-thumping but we will turn our backs on Japan.

Sheldon

Japan and China are about equal in terms of US debt held.

 

[Nutz503]

If I was China I would have done the same thing, cause they know and we know there will be no conflict with them.
They can not afford it nor can we. As some one said we are not Chinas biggest buyer. Maybe true, but we owe then a Sheet load of money.
I actually think China can do this if they want, Japan took land from them and after wars end never gave it back.
It would be the same as if after WW2 we kept France and Italy, Russia did what Japan did and kept stuff that was not theirs. If I was the Baltics I would have been very upset after the end of the wars.
China needs to be put in perspective, they want a big and powerful prosperous nation as do we. A war for either would end that goal. If China invaded tens of millions would die even trying, the people of China also do not want a war with America. Talk with people over there and you will find many love America and our way of life and both them and Japan try ti imitate us, remember we are not infidels to the nations of the Orient. We are a cash cow to them.

When China takes a look the big island of Japan then we can talk, as far as I am concerned Japan got a free ride after the war with minimal concessions, after they induced a war, and killed millions they got a slap. We must remember they did horrible things to China and its people. China has never provoked aggression by raising arms at us. Japan has, and many Allies we have today have, duh like Germany. Compared Germany was punished for their part in WW2 in perspective Japan was told to go stand in the corner and German was expelled.

Just my take.

I'm glad you chose not to address my previous post calling you out. You likely would've sounded more ignorant.

 

[shootnscoot]

Who told you that you are to feel bad and apologize to Japanese? The u.s government felt bad because they detained American citizens. To have any disdain towards Japanese Americans in this day and age is completely ignorant and I would say borderline racist.

Did you see German Americans or Italian Americans displaced from their homes during war time? In case you forgot there was a war theater that involved those foreign countries as well.

No dog in this fight, but you are accusing him of ignorance while proving yourself guilty of the same thing. If you don't know about the Italian-American and German-Americans interred and displaced by the US government in WW2, perhaps you should educate yourself, as it certainly happened. What is most disappointing to me about Japan is how they have whitewashed their own barbaric behavior during WW2 and for the most part do not mention it in their schools. The nuclear bombings are frequently brought up, but Japans use of its own chemical and biological weapons of mass destruction that left hundreds of thousands dead is ignored. Read about the Nanking massacre and the thousands of men, women and children who were raped to death by soldiers, fathers forced to rape daughters, sons forced to rape mothers before being castrated and slaughtered, the pregnant mothers who were raped and then had the babies cut out of them when they were still alive. The list is long and disgusting. If you're too lazy to read about it, go look up pictures of the sadism of these barbarians as shown in the piles of decapitated heads and infants on the end of bayonets. The atrocities in the Philippines,the enslavement of Korean girls as sex toys, the Bataan death march, experimenting on captured American\Russian\Chinese prisoners with microwave and biological weapons at Unit 731 and on and on and on. The Japanese were barbarians, there is no arguing this fact unless you live in a state of denial, like the country itself.

 

[Brutus57]

The bottom line is this, gents.... is our CinC just BLINKED again. When I was in college I thought Carter was inept and gutless, compared to our current embarrassment in Chief Carter was Teddy Roosevelt's big stick. It simply defies logic what a poor foreign policy this bunch has.

Brutus Out

 

[Nutz503]

No dog in this fight, but you are accusing him of ignorance while proving yourself guilty of the same thing. If you don't know about the Italian-American and German-Americans interred and displaced by the US government in WW2, perhaps you should educate yourself, as it certainly happened. What is most disappointing to me about Japan is how they have whitewashed their own barbaric behavior during WW2 and for the most part do not mention it in their schools. The nuclear bombings are frequently brought up, but Japans use of its own chemical and biological weapons of mass destruction that left hundreds of thousands dead is ignored. Read about the Nanking massacre and the thousands of men, women and children who were raped to death by soldiers, fathers forced to rape daughters, sons forced to rape mothers before being castrated and slaughtered, the pregnant mothers who were raped and then had the babies cut out of them when they were still alive. The list is long and disgusting. If you're too lazy to read about it, go look up pictures of the sadism of these barbarians as shown in the piles of decapitated heads and infants on the end of bayonets. The atrocities in the Philippines,the enslavement of Korean girls as sex toys, the Bataan death march, experimenting on captured American\Russian\Chinese prisoners with microwave and biological weapons at Unit 731 and on and on and on. The Japanese were barbarians, there is no arguing this fact unless you live in a state of denial, like the country itself.

I do know that Germans and Italians where interned during war time however the majority of them were not naturalized citizens. This does not make it any more excusable, but that's besides the point. My reason for calling salted out was because he seemed to be singling out Japanese in america not Japan as a country, by speaking to the point of being apologetic to those interned. There is a big difference. Also the reason I brought up the 442nd and loyalties of Japanese Americans during wartime. If the U.S. government was so fearful of Japanese spies that they would displace and intern over 100,000, why would they have them fight in the U.S. army.

I'm not disputing the brutality and barbaric actions taken by the Japanese in China and surrounding countries. It is war and war drives men to do terrible things. If we all were held accountable to the atrocities that our ancestors or country of origin committed wouldn't we all be considered barbaric.

 

[Burt Gummer]

Please don't forget that the last act of Congress in 2006 was $44 million dollars to refurbish the internment camps used to imprison the Japanese-Americans. Done for 'historical purposes!' You can't make that stuff up.
Of course, the historical purpose is repopulating those at some point. History repeats itself.

I spent some time with Sam Naito talking about what the camps were like. Amazing stories.

Sad that some people think the current Fema camps are just a joke. Well, no. Government has to store the undesirables away somewhere, most likely just to die. Entrance only type of deal. You didn't prep? Well turn in your guns and come on down for the barbeque! Got steaks on the griddle. Bullets and labor for food.

Normalcy Bias is resistance to believing a course of events will happen because they have never happened before. Well it has happened before; and it will most assuredly happen again at some point. All it will take is one major false flag event and we are off to the races.

 

[Nutz503]

I am so happy you are so excited. you must be ready to bust a walnut at me not answering you so my job is done, I can tell a baiter when I see one I guess you must be a master at that so I chose not to address it.
I do not answer people that are disrespectful its a personal rule of mine. So feel honored I answer most people but this is not kindergarten I don't play games I call it as I see it. You simply are not worth my time to give good debate with those who are disrespectful. Have a great evening buddy ! And ya I guess I am answering you in a sort, but consider it more a statement not an answer .

Baiting? If questioning the reasoning of your post is baiting then so be it. I don't see how me calling out the racist nature of your post is disrespectful, but so be it. If someone perceived something that I said to be racist, and I truly wasnt, then I would surely try to clear up my intentions. But you chose to offer no clarification. You're right, not answering did get to me. And i see what you are trying to do by saying "you got to me so your job is done." Let's just say you're a coward and I'll leave it at that

 

[Brutus57]

I don't buy into to Burt's fatalism but it is intuitively obvious to the most casual of observers that the current government has an overwhelming fear and distrust of the 2amendment supporting Americans. They have read Mein Kampf and the Communist Manifesto, etc. and figure the confiscation of firearms will be the only way to ensure their keeping themselves in power. Sorry, losers, you may hold the top positions right now but soon, like all despots you will be consigned to the dustbin of history. The unfortunate fact will be how many good man and women have to die to reach that inevitable result. Me, I think American DNA still contains enough of the Constitution to correct this little abberation of history. He'll go t to -Africa but where he should be tomorrow is Pearl Harbor. What a dis grace to the Seal of the United States of America.

Brutus out

 

[3MTA3]

Agree on all counts, Brutus. The next two elections will determine whether or not we can right the ship. Where will the leadership come from? I can say I was unaware of Reagan (outside of being an actor) before his victory against Carter, I just hope someone with the talent and skill is out there flying under the RADAR. The electorate is ready for a change.

 

[U201491]

The difference today is :
Japan is now an ally.
China is NOT.