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Dangerous escalation between China and Japan

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by ATCclears, Nov 23, 2013.

  1. ATCclears

    ATCclears Seattle area, WA Well-Known Member

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  2. billdeserthills

    billdeserthills Cave Creek, Arizony Well-Known Member

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    Japan should borrow a trillion $
    then China will quit hassling them as they'll
    hafta worry about a default on their loan.

    Anyhow a trillion should be a good start towards cleaning up
    all the residual radioactivity from fukashima
     
  3. Brutus57

    Brutus57 Skagit County Well-Known Member

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    And with our socialist in chief Japan will be left on its own if a few bullets, missiles or torpedoes start flying. Yes, this is a dangerous situation.
    I really feel sorry for our allies at this juncture in history.

    Brutus Out
     
  4. luke23

    luke23 United States (Hawai'i island, Olympic Pen. WA) Active Member

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    China's interested in money, Japan's interested in prestige. They'll work out some kind of deal where each side gets what they want.
     
  5. Brutus57

    Brutus57 Skagit County Well-Known Member

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    Doesn't sound like you are taking in to consideration the fact that these two countries have HATED each other for centuries and gone to war more than a couple times over various and asundry boundaries.

    Brutus Out
     
  6. billdeserthills

    billdeserthills Cave Creek, Arizony Well-Known Member

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    We owe China one trillion $$$--
    I'm guessin' they think they are Our Allies
     
  7. luke23

    luke23 United States (Hawai'i island, Olympic Pen. WA) Active Member

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    I'd hardly blame the Chinese for hating Japan after what the Japanese did to their people and their land. There's a reason it's called the Rape of Nanking. But the dichotomy has largely changed today. China is secure in the knowledge it has a nuclear arsenal capable of obliterating Japan, which guarantees their own safety in war, and they know Japan is unwilling to bear the brunt of a war. Huge amounts of young people in Japan aren't ambitious enough to meet girls and date, and instead socialize with body pillows. I doubt they'd be able to mobilize a military capable of standing up to China.

    The US is also not in a position to fight a war, so there's no way we'd let the situation grow that out of hand. Further, China and Russia still have bad blood, and China won't want to risk hostilities there if the international community turned on them.

    While anything is possible, I see war as an extremely unlikely event.
     
  8. Sstrand

    Sstrand La Grande OR Well-Known Member

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    A short "diplomatic" letter to the emperor reviewing the amount of US debt held by the Chicoms will blunt any real threat from the US. Oh, there will be bluster and chest-thumping but we will turn our backs on Japan.

    Sheldon
     
  9. rufus

    rufus State of Jefferson Well-Known Member

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    I have complete confidence in John Kerry, he will fix it. :bluelaugh:
     
  10. Sgt Nambu

    Sgt Nambu Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I would rather have a body pillow negotiate for us.
     
    fredball, Stomper, Rotty and 7 others like this.
  11. luke23

    luke23 United States (Hawai'i island, Olympic Pen. WA) Active Member

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    +1 :thumbup:
     
  12. ATCclears

    ATCclears Seattle area, WA Well-Known Member

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    China slams 'inappropriate' U.S. remarks on island dispute with Japan - CNN.com

    Hong Kong (CNN) -- China has told the United States to butt out of a territorial dispute with Japan in the East China Sea after Washington warned that a military claim by Beijing to airspace in the region raises the risk of "misunderstanding and miscalculations."

    The creation of an "Air Defense Identification Zone" by China comes amid increasing tensions between Beijing and Tokyo over competing claims to disputed islands in the sea, which are believed to be situated near large reserves of natural resources.

    China's announcement Saturday of the zone, which it described as an early-warning system for self-defense, drew a swift response from the United States, Japan's closest military ally.

    Washington warned that the latest Chinese move creates the risk of potentially dangerous miscalculations in the sensitive region, where Chinese and Japanese ships and planes have already been involved in tense encounters.

    "This unilateral action constitutes an attempt to change the status quo in the East China Sea. Escalatory action will only increase tensions in the region and create risks of an incident," U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry said.

    "We have urged China to exercise caution and restraint, and we are consulting with Japan and other affected parties throughout the region," Kerry said. The United States has thousands of troops stationed in Japan as part of a security treaty between the two allies.

    'Inappropriate remarks'

    But Chinese officials dismissed the U.S. comments as unjustified interference.

    American criticism of the air zone announcement is "completely unreasonable," Col. Yang Yujun, a Ministry of National Defense spokesman, said Sunday.

    The United States should stop taking sides on the issue, cease making "inappropriate remarks" and not send any more "wrong signals" that could lead to a "risky move by Japan," he said.

    Beijing demands that the United States respect Chinese national security, stop making "irresponsible remarks" about the air defense identification zone and make "concrete efforts" for peace and stability in the Asia-Pacific region, Yang said.

    The Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs said it had lodged a representation with U.S. Ambassador Gary Locke asking the United States "to correct its mistakes immediately."

    The dispute over the islands -- known as the Senkaku Islands by Japan and the Diaoyu Islands by China -- has strained relations between the two East Asian countries. The islands are close to strategically important shipping lanes and their surrounding waters are full of rich marine life.

    The Chinese defense ministry said the new air zone was not directed toward a specific country. But it released a map and coordinates that show the zone covers most of the East China Sea, as well as the islands.

    And it warned that its armed forces "will adopt defensive emergency measures to respond to aircraft that do not cooperate in the identification or refuse to follow the instructions."

    China's declaration is "definitely a net escalation in the dispute" with Japan, said Stephanie Kleine-Ahlbrandt, director of Asia-Pacific programs at the U.S. Institute of Peace.

    "It makes it more likely that jets will be scrambled," she said. "An aerial encounter carries a much higher risk because of the faster timings involved" than in a maritime encounter.

    'Profoundly dangerous'

    Japan on Sunday expressed "deep concern" about the Chinese announcement, describing it as "profoundly dangerous."

    The new Chinese measures "unilaterally change the status quo in the East China Sea, escalating the situation, and that may cause unintended consequences," the Japanese foreign ministry said in a statement.

    Tokyo "cannot accept at all" that the Chinese air zone claim includes the disputed islands, which Japan considers "an inherent part" of its territory, the statement said, adding that the Japanese government has "already made strong protests to China."

    Chinese officials appeared unimpressed by the Japanese complaints.

    Tokyo's remarks are "utterly groundless and China won't accept them," Yang said, observing that Japan had set up its own air defense identification zone in the 1960s.

    He reiterated Beijing's claim to the disputed islands and said its determination to ensure sovereignty over them was "unwavering."

    Defense ministry officials have made "solemn representations" on the matter to the Japanese Embassy in China, he said.

    The South Korean government also expressed regret Sunday over the Chinese announcement, saying the new air defense zone partially overlaps with its territory, the South Korean news agency Yonhap reported.

    'Misunderstanding and miscalculations'

    The Chinese defense ministry has said it began patrols of the air zone on Saturday.

    Japan's defense ministry said two Chinese planes came within miles of its airspace, prompting authorities to scramble Japanese fighter jets.

    It's the second time this month that Japan has launched fighter jets, alleging Chinese planes appeared to be closing in on its air space.


    U.S. Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel called the move by China an attempt to destabilize the status quo in the region, saying it "increases the risk of misunderstanding and miscalculations."

    "This announcement by the People's Republic of China will not in any way change how the United States conducts military operations in the region," Hagel said.

    U.S. and Japanese forces are due to hold joint naval exercises this week off Okinawa -- a few hundred kilometers from the disputed islands.

    Competing claims

    The long-running disagreement over who owns the islands intensified between Japan and China in the second half of 2012.

    Protests erupted in China after Japan announced it had bought several of the disputed islands from private Japanese owners. The deal was struck in part to prevent the islands from being bought by the controversial Tokyo governor Shintaro Ishihara, who had called for donations for a public fund to buy them.

    China was outraged, as were groups of its citizens who protested violently in several Chinese cities, calling for boycotts of Japanese products and urging the government to give the islands back.

    In December 2012, the dispute escalated further when Japan scrambled fighter jets after a Chinese plane was seen near the islands. That situation has recurred repeatedly since, and China's latest announcement makes it likely it will keep happening.

    At sea, Chinese ships have frequently entered contested waters despite warnings from the Japanese Coast Guard.

    China says its claim extends back hundreds of years. Japan says it saw no trace of Chinese control of the islands in an 1885 survey, so formally recognized them as Japanese sovereign territory in 1895. Japan then sold the islands in 1932 to descendants of the original settlers.

    The Japanese surrender at the end of World War II in 1945 only served to cloud the issue further.

    The islands were administered by the U.S. occupation force after the war. But in 1972, Washington returned them to Japan as part of its withdrawal from Okinawa.

    Taiwan, which Beijing regards as a breakaway province, also lays claim to the islands.
     
  13. ATCclears

    ATCclears Seattle area, WA Well-Known Member

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    US flies B-52's into the new zone. Whee...

    U.S. Flies B-52s Into China's New Air Defense Zone - WSJ.com


    Nov. 26, 2013 11:39 a.m. ET

    WASHINGTON—A pair of American B-52 bombers flew over a disputed island chain in the East China Sea without informing Beijing, U.S. officials said Tuesday, in a direct challenge to China and its establishment of an expanded air defense zone.

    The planes flew out of Guam and entered the new Chinese Air Defense Identification Zone at about 7 p.m. Washington time Monday, according to a U.S. official.

    Over the weekend, Beijing said it was expanding its Air Defense Identification Zone to include the island chain, which is claimed by both Beijing and Tokyo but administered by Japan. The islands, the source of growing friction in the region, are known as the Diaoyu Islands in China and Senkaku Islands in Japan.

    Defense officials earlier had promised that the U.S. would challenge the zone and would not comply with Chinese requirements to file a flight plan, radio frequency or transponder information.

    The flight of the B-52s, based at Anderson Air Force Base in Guam, were part of a long planned exercise called Coral Lightening. The bombers were not armed and were not accompanied by escort planes.

    Write to Julian E. Barnes at julian.barnes@wsj.com
     
  14. cookie

    cookie THE SOCIALIST STATE OF KALI - FORNIA Well-Known Member

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    I would put money on it that the Chinese think they own U.S., they probably do and know our congressman, senators and president will sell us out for cheap. I really doubt our military can win a war with a world power. Recent history of how poorly the results have been with how the gooberment ran the U.n. wars in Korea. Vietnam, Both Bush follies and Obambers continuation of the Bushes follies to push us towards the new world order..
     
  15. Burt Gummer

    Burt Gummer Portland Completely Out of Ammo

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    http://rt.com/news/japan-south-korea-china-432/

    The greatest Debtor nation (US) vs the greatest Creditor nation (China) - (Japan is just our proxy).

    Maybe our Rogue government sees WWIII as a way out. Hopefully not. Bombs dropping on US cities might change the average Americans feelings about war though. It won't be 'cool' anymore like an Xbox video game.
     
  16. Rotty

    Rotty Skagit County Active Member

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    Not just fly bombers but fly Empty bombers.
     
  17. EMNofSeattle

    EMNofSeattle Kitsap Active Member

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    China is not the largest source of our debt, most debt of the US Government is owed to American interests and not China. China isn't even half of our foreign held debt. In addition we bought a trillion dollars worth of Chinese bonds, China owes us nearly the exact same amount as we owe them.

    in fact, we owe to Japan almost as much as China.
     
  18. cookie

    cookie THE SOCIALIST STATE OF KALI - FORNIA Well-Known Member

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    US flies B-52's into the new zone, Setting our military for more failures. The US military hasn't done much good since Korea with tiny third world nations. Just think how war with China will turn out. The Chinese soldiers are crazy !!!
     
  19. ATCclears

    ATCclears Seattle area, WA Well-Known Member

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    Yahoo News Canada - Latest News & Headlines

    NEW YORK/WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. airlines United, American and Delta, have notified Chinese authorities of flight plans when traveling through an air defense zone Beijing has declared over the East China Sea, following U.S. government advice.

    The United States said on Friday it expected U.S. carriers to operate in line with so-called notices to airmen issued by foreign countries, although it added that the decision did "not indicate U.S. government acceptance of China's requirements.

    A spokesman for Delta Airlines said it had been complying with the Chinese requests for flight plans for the past week.

    American and United said separately that they were complying, but did not say for how long they had done so.

    Airline industry officials said the U.S. government generally expects U.S. carriers operating internationally to comply with notices issued by foreign countries.

    In contrast, two major airlines in Japan, the United States' close ally, have agreed with the Japanese government that they would fly through the zone without notifying China.

    China published coordinates for the zone last weekend. The area, about two-thirds the size of the United Kingdom, covers most of the East China Sea and the skies over a group of uninhabited islands at the center of a bitter dispute between Beijing and Tokyo.

    Beijing wants all foreign aircraft passing through the zone, including passenger planes, to identify themselves to Chinese authorities.

    China's declaration of the zone represents a historic challenge by the emerging new world power to the United States, which has dominated the region for decades.

    The United States, Japan and South Korea have defied the Chinese move by flying military aircraft, including giant U.S. B-52 bombers, through the zone without informing Beijing.

    A U.S. official said China's action appeared to be a unilateral attempt to change the status quo in the East China Sea, which could "increase the risk of miscalculation, confrontation and accidents".

    "We urge the Chinese to exercise caution and restraint, and we are consulting with Japan and other affected parties throughout the region," the official said.

    U.S. Vice President Joe Biden is due to visit China, Japan and South Korea next week, and will try to ease tensions over the issue, senior American officials said.

    China scrambled jets on Friday after two U.S. spy planes and 10 Japanese aircraft, including F-15 fighters, entered the zone, China's state news agency Xinhua said. The jets were scrambled for effective monitoring, it quoted air force spokesman Shen Jinke as saying.

    The Chinese patrol mission, conducted on Thursday, was "a defensive measure and in line with international common practices," Shen said, according to Xinhua.

    "China's air force is on high alert and will take measures to deal with diverse air threats to firmly protect the security of the country's airspace," he said.

    However, Defense Ministry spokesman Yang Yujun said it was "incorrect" to suggest China would shoot down aircraft which entered the zone without first identifying themselves.

    U.S. flights were "routinely" transiting the zone, U.S. officials said on Friday.

    "These flights are consistent with long standing and well known U.S. freedom of navigation policies," Pentagon spokesman Colonel Steve Warren said. "I can confirm that the U.S. has and will continue to operate in the area as normal."

    A U.S. Defense official said routine operations included reconnaissance and surveillance flights.

    STRAINED TIES

    Japanese carriers ANA Holdings and Japan Airlines have flown through the zone without informing China. Neither airline has experienced problems.

    The airlines said they were sticking with the policy even after Washington advised U.S. commercial airlines to notify China when they fly through the zone.

    China's Foreign Ministry said on Thursday there had been no impact on the safe operation of international civilian flights since the zone came into force, although China "hoped" airlines would co-operate.

    Ties between China and Japan have been strained for months by the dispute over the islands, called the Diaoyu by China and the Senkaku by Japan.

    Mutual mistrust over military intentions and what China feels is Japan's lack of contrition over its brutal occupation of parts of China before and during World War Two have added to tension.

    "It's important for both sides to take a calm approach and deal with the situation according to international norms," Japanese Defense Minister Itsunori Onodera told state broadcaster NHK. Onodera said the Japanese military had not noted any Chinese aircraft in the zone.

    Although Washington takes no position on the sovereignty of the islands, it recognizes Tokyo's administrative control and says the U.S.-Japan security pact applies to them.

    Europe's top diplomat, Catherine Ashton, said the European Union was concerned about China's decision to establish the new air defense zone as well as its announcement of "emergency defense measures" if other parties did not comply.

    "This development heightens the risk of escalation and contributes to raising tensions in the region," Ashton said. "The EU calls on all sides to exercise caution and restraint."

    CRITICISM

    China's Foreign Ministry spokesman Qin Gang criticized Ashton's remarks, saying China hoped the European Union could treat the situation "objectively and rationally."

    "Actually, Madam Ashton should know that some European countries also have air-defense identification zones," Qin said. "I don't know if this leads to tensions in the European regional situation. European countries can have air-defense identification zones. Why can't China?"

    Although there are concerns over the increased tensions, the United States and China have stepped up military communication in recent years to avoid accidental clashes.

    China's Global Times, an influential tabloid published by the ruling Communist Party's official People's Daily newspaper, praised Beijing for its calm response in the face of "provocations," saying China would not target the United States in the zone as long as it "does not go too far."

    It warned Japan that it could expect a robust response if it continued to fly military aircraft in the zone.

    "If the trend continues, there will likely be frictions and confrontations and even a collision in the air ... It is therefore an urgent task for China to further train its air force to make full preparation for potential conflicts," it wrote in an editorial on Friday.

    (Additional reporting by Tim Kelly in Tokyo, Phil Stewart in Washington and Sui-Lee Wee, Michael Martina and Paul Carsten in Beijing; Writing by Neil Fullick.; Editing by David Brunnstrom and Christopher Wilson)
     
  20. Grunwald

    Grunwald Out of that nut job colony of Seattle, WA Well-Known Member

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    If it comes to that I hope they start with San Francisco. Hopefully the 3 wicked witches from the West will be there when it starts.