WTS WA CZ Scorpion EVO in 9mm

[fraidenburg]

CZ Scorpion EVO in 9mm for sale. Has maybe 50 rounds shot. I have the original box and everything it came with.

2 10rd mags
3 30rd mags
KAK arm brace
Magpul vertical grip. This is at the 26 OAL so per ATF it is a firearm and can have a forward grip. Less than 26in you need a form 1 for a AOW.
Trijicon MRO new only fired 15 rounds mounted
Inforce WML white with IR. 400 lumens


No MRO or the Inforce light now. Price lowered to $750. Don't want to ship and I suck at selling things, so maybe the lower price will help.

Trades would be a non-build AR pistol. I don't trust or like other people building their own firearms, so don't even try.

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[Quartermaster]

Good setup, and completely ATF compliant!

 

[FireArm]

When I get one im going to run this same setup. GLWS

 

[B3dlam]

The fact that the barrel is under 16" makes this an SBR if it is considered a rifle. It is currently considered a pistol and adding a vertical foregrip makes it an AOW.

"The "any other weapon" definition excludes weapons designed to be fired from the shoulder that are not capable of firing fixed ammunition or a pistol or revolver having a rifled bore. However, certain alterations to a pistol or revolver, such as the addition of a second vertical handgrip, create a weapon that no longer meets the definition of pistol or revolver.14 A pistol or revolver modified as described is an "any other weapon" subject to the NFA because the weapon is not designed to be fired when held in one hand. "

"2.1.4 Weapon made from a rifle. A weapon made from a rifle is a rifle type weapon that has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length."

"2.1.3 Rifle. A rifle is a firearm designed to be fired from the shoulder and designed to use the energy of an explosive in a fixed cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled barrel for each single pull of the trigger.11 A rifle subject to the NFA has a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length."

Your firearm has a barrel less than 16" and is not designed to be fired from the shoulder and is therefore a pistol by ATF rules. Adding a vertical foregrip to a pistol makes it an AOW.

Unless there is a specific letter from the ATF referring to this configuration as being legal we have to stick with published law.

 

[fraidenburg]

The ATF has long held that adding a vertical fore-grip to a pistol makes it an AOW subject to the requirements of the National Firearms Act (NFA).

However, like so many ATF regulations, this one needs further clarification. If the overall length (OAL) of the pistol is greater than 26 inches then adding a vertical fore-grip doesn'tresult in the pistol becoming an AOW. The following letter from 2011 breaks down the ATF's position:




To summarize … unless your AR pistol has an OAL greater than 26 inches then you should not add a vertical fore-grip unless you first submit a Form 1 and get it approved.

 

[Quartermaster]

The fact that the barrel is under 16" makes this an SBR if it is considered a rifle. It is currently considered a pistol and adding a vertical foregrip makes it an AOW.

"The "any other weapon" definition excludes weapons designed to be fired from the shoulder that are not capable of firing fixed ammunition or a pistol or revolver having a rifled bore. However, certain alterations to a pistol or revolver, such as the addition of a second vertical handgrip, create a weapon that no longer meets the definition of pistol or revolver.14 A pistol or revolver modified as described is an "any other weapon" subject to the NFA because the weapon is not designed to be fired when held in one hand. "

"2.1.4 Weapon made from a rifle. A weapon made from a rifle is a rifle type weapon that has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length."

"2.1.3 Rifle. A rifle is a firearm designed to be fired from the shoulder and designed to use the energy of an explosive in a fixed cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled barrel for each single pull of the trigger.11 A rifle subject to the NFA has a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length."

Your firearm has a barrel less than 16" and is not designed to be fired from the shoulder and is therefore a pistol by ATF rules. Adding a vertical foregrip to a pistol makes it an AOW.

Unless there is a specific letter from the ATF referring to this configuration as being legal we have to stick with published law.

In case you're not subscribed to this classified ad, I'll bring you back to see the excellent work done by @fraidenburg
Long story short: Do your homework before poo pooing on someone's ad. Quite a few of us have been following the "published law" a lot longer than you have.

Op: Sorry about the detraction. GLWS, and I'll be in touch if I can free up some cash.

 

[B3dlam]

The ATF has long held that adding a vertical fore-grip to a pistol makes it an AOW subject to the requirements of the National Firearms Act (NFA).

However, like so many ATF regulations, this one needs further clarification. If the overall length (OAL) of the pistol is greater than 26 inches then adding a vertical fore-grip doesn'tresult in the pistol becoming an AOW. The following letter from 2011 breaks down the ATF's position:


View attachment 323440 View attachment 323441 View attachment 323442

To summarize … unless your AR pistol has an OAL greater than 26 inches then you should not add a vertical fore-grip unless you first submit a Form 1 and get it approved.

So how does this work for firearms transferred on a 4473 as a pistol. All the references and articles I've seen relating to this decision specify that they need to be transferred in a specific way for it to apply (as a receiver for ARs and 'other' for a completed xo-26). Does it basically fall under the same rules as converting a pistol to a rifle?

 

[fraidenburg]

When I get time today I'll dig up some more info for you.

 

[B3dlam]

When I get time today I'll dig up some more info for you.

No worries ill just PM you as I'm curious now.

 

[fraidenburg]

I hate dealing with the ATF. So from what I can tell, the next time this firearm is to be transferred it would be a firearm and not a pistol. That is the only thing I can find. This is not classified as a AOW or a SBR. If you are bothered by it you can take the vertical grip off and there would not be a question. That is the only part in question and I feel that it is legal under the AFT guidelines.

Side note if you have a AR pistol and a AR rifle stock that is not being used they can come after you for intent. It's just like having auto sear but not installed. Every time I go looking into the ATF it's a rabbit hole.

 

[Member 34319]

To be honest. I'd take off the very grip for your sale. The buyer can choose to do what he/she wants. It would also make for a (likely) easier and smoother sale. I would also close this add and start another fresh.

 

[fraidenburg]

To be honest. I'd take off the very grip for your sale. The buyer can choose to do what he/she wants. It would also make for a (likely) easier and smoother sale. I would also close this add and start another fresh.

If the buyer wants to take it off, it's up to them. If someone is scared off because of the gray area with the ATF, then they would have the same problem with the "stabilizing brace". If it doesn't sell, not a big deal.

 

[Quartermaster]

Not intending to beat a dead horse, but be sure when you (any of you), measure to get to 26", I'm under the impression that this starts (rear) at the end of the tube inside the "brace" accessory, and goes to the tip of the barrel without any removable muzzle devices. And is done parallel to the bore...

Very handsome firearm you have there.

The measurement is OAL of the entire firearm, not some functioning portion of it. The distinction is that the ATF considers a firearm to be nonconcealable at, and above that length.

 

[Quartermaster]

I'm under the impression that this starts (rear) at the end of the tube inside the "brace" accessory

Wrong, but you forgot that you mentioned it.

The, also, removable braces that can be shoved further in or pulled further out at will...

slings, flashlights, duct tape... aren't part of that unless you can convince them that they're permanent.

1. Wrong, read the letter again. For the purpose of measuring OAL, the stock is extended fully. Never says it has to stay that way.
2. Not interested in you making a strawman out of my argument, so bringing up this garbage does nothing to strengthen your position. You want to get into a measuring contest, start another thread instead of beating a dead horse on a classified.

@fraidenburg Sorry for all the pooing on your ad, my contributions especially.

 

[fraidenburg]

Maybe we should move this ad to the NFA board haha. I'm all for good info getting posted.

Always open to talk about it but work is crazy right now or I would be on here more.

 

[Member 34319]

I'll just leave this here, to umm, help.

A "Firearm" at the CZ-USA Booth - The Truth About Guns

Still loving this set up! Want one, but I'm all Glock!

 

[Hun Shooter]

Lots of useful information here, thanks for sharing.

Good luck with the sale, nice setup

 

[czechmate82]

I have a ParaOrdnance P13 I would be willing to trade for....but it would be straight trade...no money either way. I have a soft spot for Czech firearms...

 

[fraidenburg]

I have a ParaOrdnance P13 I would be willing to trade for....but it would be straight trade...no money either way. I have a soft spot for Czech firearms...

It's best to make offers through a PM but no thanks. I am not a fan of the Para 1911s. Not really a fan of Para at all.

 

[ThemGunsThough]

Your inbox is full. Anyone know if it is legal if a Washington resident sells this to an Oregon resident at an Oregon FFL?