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I'm just waiting for more relevant examples of tactics from paintball matches.

Hoping someone brings up pillow fights and flag football and relates it to self-defense shootings...

LOL too funny. The combat paintball post earlier was epic.
 
I'm just waiting for more relevant examples of tactics from paintball matches.

Hoping someone brings up pillow fights and flag football and relates it to self-defense shootings...
Don't forget video games !

I remember a post once where someone applied a video game weapon as a reference to the operation of a real weapon (something like that anyway)
 
I don't believe that any of the participants on this forum need you to clarify or explain anything to them, especially concerning my opinions, views or thoughts. They all wear big boy pants and can figure these things out for themselves. You are clearly trying to establish your position as a dominant one with regard to "lights" on guns. Your arguments and postulations are poor at best. You clearly have little or no real world experience with regard to gunfights except for your online gaming experiences. Don't make the error of building a straw man and then putting your straw man in an environment of your choosing. If you like lights on your guns, that's fine. I don't. In the real world, you'll notice that neither soldiers nor the police use them. They simply tell your intended target where you're at. While you seem to be using "threat identification" as the basis for your theorem, it is spurious, at best. Now please, just go back into your basement.

Shame on you! You are a Bad, Bad Gunny! You are hereby reduced in rank to Private and restricted to your rear echelon supply shack for 2 weeks. :s0112:


lights.jpg download.jpg
 
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. In the real world, you'll notice that neither soldiers nor the police use them. They simply tell your intended target where you're at.

Respectfully disagree. Spent 24 years in Infantry then Special Operations. I was issued PEQ-2, PEQ-4, Dbal's, PEQ-15, and lastly PEQ-16B. hell I have a couple mounted to my long guns. The more current models have visible, IR lasers, illuminators and white lights. Never used the visible lasers for anything but shoot house/training. IR lasers/illuminators are a must for night operations and CQB. YES, the US military uses lasers have been for decades.
 
Respectfully disagree. Spent 24 years in Infantry then Special Operations. I was issued PEQ-2, PEQ-4, Dbal's, PEQ-15, and lastly PEQ-16B. hell I have a couple mounted to my long guns. The more current models have visible, IR lasers, illuminators and white lights. Never used the visible lasers for anything but shoot house/training. IR lasers/illuminators are a must for night operations and CQB. YES, the US military uses lasers have been for decades.
The rank and file foot soldiers are not issued lasers. Perhaps I should have been more clear in my response. I apologize for that error. Even in my time silencers/suppressors were used by "special' troops for clandestine operations, but were never issued to the ordinary grunt. There are always exceptions and inevitably they will be brought forth by members in these forums.
 
Yeah, saying military and LE don't use them is completely untrue. They've been using WMLs for years.
Gee guys, don't you think that this topic is about played out? I understand that technology has advanced dramatically, but that doesn't mean that it's employed by everyday foot soldiers. The topic was about lasers on weapons and as I've stated in previous posts, I'm opposed to them. Flashlights are the same. Unless you've been a cop or a grunt in armed combat against an armed enemy that is in close proximity, I don't understand why you would want to expose your position. If you were a homeowner and were awakened by sounds, etc. and reached for your weapon of choice would you really use a flashlight or laser to tell the intruder, "Here I am?" I don't think so or maybe I'm just plain wrong. As I've said, I wouldn't use one. Six years as a cop and 20 years in the Corps proved to me that they are not for me. Remember, this is MY opinion. I'm not trying to convert any of you.
 
If you were a homeowner and were awakened by sounds, etc. and reached for your weapon of choice would you really use a flashlight or laser to tell the intruder, "Here I am?"
Good point but a bright light is also effective at temporarily 'blinding' someone to avert their looking at you.
 
The rank and file foot soldiers are not issued lasers. Perhaps I should have been more clear in my response. I apologize for that error. Even in my time silencers/suppressors were used by "special' troops for clandestine operations, but were never issued to the ordinary grunt. There are always exceptions and inevitably they will be brought forth by members in these forums.

Ah now you are side stepping. You simply don't know what you are talking about. Your perspective is 50 years old, you are completely unaware of changes over the last 25 years and you are assuming nothing has changed during that time. It's like you haven't turned on a TV in 25 years to see a single felony traffic stop or warrant service on Cops, Live PD, News channels, documentaries, or anything else. Its like you haven't seen a single documentary on the wars in Iraq or Afghanistan. Every active duty 03 or 11B with an M-4, M-27, M249 is issued some kind of optical sight, PEQ/PAQ or something similar laser, in addition to PVS-14's, PVS-7 or newer night vision devices. Almost every cop from every non-podunk town is running a weapon light on their handgun. So much so that the Harries and FBI techniques are no longer taught for using handheld lights.
 
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Pretty sure threat identification, i.e. Being sure of your target and what is behind it, is a pretty crucial part of being a responsible firearm owner and user.... Hardly a spurious theorem.
Oh I agree. However, when you are lying in your bed and hear that noise (son or daughter sneaking in) you ask "is that you Johnny/Susy?" If there's no response then you are reaching for a gun. You would always call out with your voice and not go running around your home with your laser and flashlight on your AR with a 30 round magazine. That's just plain common sense. If you've ever read my views on threat assessment before, you'd recognize the wisdom of my views. You are always free to do whatever you wish. I'm not responsible for you or your family, but I am for me and mine. I'm 73 and been married to the same woman for 53 years and raised two outstanding sons, both of whom are gun owners. I caught both of my boys crawling into their rooms through windows they'd left open. When I called out to them, they both answered, "yes dad, It's me!" Had they failed to respond, they ran the risk of a mad dad with a gun in his hands helping them back out the window! I once caught two Russians trying to steal my motorhome. The sound of a 12 gauge shell being jacked into battery is an international language. They both fell to their knees and raised their hands in surrender. I arrested both of them and handcuffed them to a light pole and then called the sheriff's office to have a patrol car pick them up. No one was hurt or killed.
 
, I don't understand why you would want to expose your position. If you were a homeowner and were awakened by sounds, etc. and reached for your weapon of choice would you really use a flashlight or laser to tell the intruder, "Here I am?" I don't think so or maybe I'm just plain wrong.
No I would use my phone to turn on all the lights in the house and have the speakers start playing E1M1.

Eye safe lasers also aren't really visible unless you're looking down the beam or you have dramatic fog machines going.
 
(Everyone thinks they have a good AF burn - in 40 years, I've only heard 2. :))
I just heard the Air Force got a new battle cry :
Nice Putt.....:D

Just kidding....anyone who served no matter what branch or MOS has my thanks.
We were often doing a job far away from home , in a inhospitable place , for damn little pay and for reasons , most do not understand.
Andy
 
Eye safe lasers also aren't really visible unless you're looking down the beam or you have dramatic fog machines going.

I can't speak for whether my lasers are eye safe or not, but I have noticed that the red laser does not easily show the laser light between the laser and where it hits something solid, but my green laser does during nights where the humidity is high (not visible fog).
 
Before I worked at a gun counter, I never really put a lot of thought into the idea of Crimson Traces or any other laser sighting system. Now after having that experience, I've been blown away by the level of demand for these products. I notice that the vast majority of people who come in interested in them seem to be beginners or otherwise casual shooters.

Now I'll go to my grave arguing for using a weapon light over a laser any day. The laser has always been a novelty item and a glorified toy to me. Everyone that tells me about why they want one has this idea that they're going to use the laser to hipfire their pistol across their living room or down the hall and hit some bad guy. I don't know, I'd rather train actually being proficient with irons or a red dot and have a light, all of which would be vastly more advantageous in a myriad of situations.

Anyone else wanna validate me, or argue with me?

I will never have a laser on any of my firearms, unless I live to see the day that the laser IS the firearm.
 
You were never a Marine. Optical sights are not "lights". Now I'm done with you and will be using the ignore button.

So in other words you have raised the white flag of surrender and entered into full retreat. If I was never a Marine then you never left your stateside Marine Corps Reserve supply unit for Vietnam. As a real Marine (03), from now on I will expect a snappy salute from you when you respond to my poasts. Boomers:rolleyes:
 
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