Crazy how many people want lasers on their pistols.

[The Heretic]

I have a number of lasers, but always they are combined with a light; e.g., the TLR-8 HL-G is currently my favorite.

There are obvious reasons for a light, especially where I live (in the woods where there is no ambient light at night). For handguns and shotguns, a laser can be helpful, and I have found that I am more accurate with a laser than with most iron sights. For one thing, my eyesight is not what it used to be.

That said, I have not practiced enough with a laser to be as fast as I am with iron sights, but as I said, I seem to be more accurate.

I've been shooting guns for over 50 years so I am not new to guns. I've had some LE training too.

I am not totally sold on lasers - yet. I need more experience/practice with them as I only got some in the last year or two and have not taken the time to practice with them as I should, but when I did use them, I do not think they are a gimmick. For close range (less than 50 yards), I can use them, especially at night, almost as well as iron sights and I think I can switch between them and iron sights as I see fit.

 

[titsonritz]

I have a number of lasers, but always they are combined with a light; e.g., the TLR-8 HL-G is currently my favorite.

Thanks for the reminder, I need to send one back to Streamlight.

 

[edzz]

Question. How do you know the laser is holding point of aim and not the scope? Not only that, bullets don't fly like lasers point.

If they both are in alignment at the co-witnessed preestablished distance I'm fairly sure that I have not lost zero. If they differ I know I need to check my zero.
Bullets don't fly like lasers point? Not sure what your point is. Never mentioned bullet flight only thought I was discussing intersecting points of aim for different aiming devices. Do I need to explain how the coriolis effect would not likely come into play also?


BTW my rocket scientist brother in law (the real deal) has told me that like a fired projectile a laser beam is affected by gravity. Not something that we mere mortals would notice however to NASA it is a consideration in some cases.

 

[RVTECH]

A laser on my pistol!

 

[Alexx1401]

Calculators are cool and useful, but if you can't do long division by hand, well...........................................................................?

That brought back memories. When I was back in school to get more training TI had put out a new programmable calculator. Instructor was teaching us how to do Trig long hand. After we mastered doing it he shared the program with us to add to the new toy that did it for us. Years later I noticed very few could still remember how to do it long (hard way) hand. While back someone at work was asking me how Trig worked. I drew a triangle, showed a couple numbers, said with it you can find all the distances and angles. When they asked me to show them how I had to laugh. Said I no longer remembered the formula as I had gotten so used to doing it with a machine giving me the answers. A LOT of the math we used to use I no longer know how to do without the machine.

 

[Lextruck]

I enjoy shooting with whatever style the gun in my hand is equipped with. I do find the laser nice when running a suppressor since I haven't replaced the sights but honestly it blows my mind to hear people say it makes you slower. I feel like I'm cheating every time I use it. I also find it interesting to see what new shooters or people in general are doing right before they pull the trigger by watching the lasers movement. I only have 1 by I don't hate it

 

[Alexx1401]

Ok, I know you've all been waiting four pages for me to weigh in....
The best benefit of a laser is the psychological effect it has on the person who looks down and sees the little red/green dot on their chest. That alone may be all you need to diffuse a situation.

When I was working for a multi millionaire keeping his stuff safe the Taser was still new. Even though I carried, I bought one. Damn thing cost me more than a nice pistol then. That laser on it helped many times. Someone would see the dot, ask if I was going to shoot them? When I said no, it's a Taser, I am going to Taze you, cuff you, and leave you lay here till Cops get here. I carried that thing many years and never had to use it. The fight stopped every time right there. That had of course a lot more to do with the weapon, not the laser but, the little light sure as hell got their attention at night in low light and started the "conversation" that ended things in my favor

 

[2gunnztoo]

My 2 cents on lasers is if u train enough to use it proficiently it canbe another "tool in the toolbox" to help u (especially a light laser combo that doesn't add a lot of bulk). If u depend on it or any other gizmo to heighten ur abilities without becoming proficient at it could make things worse by adding complications. Knowledge and training trumps gizmos.

My view is keep it simple until u have mastery (or close to it) then adding the right tool in the toolbox (And becoming proficient at that) can help. Below is a video of using laser on an AR in a home invasion.

I see it all the time with those new to photography. They think the right camera or lens will make them a better photographer when 95% of what they need is knowledge and practice. Once they have learned what to do to get good shots consistently in any setting, then adding a better camera body or lens will make them better. But until then it won't do much of anything except add more gadgets to fiddle with that they haven't yet mastered.

And ifyou have a split second to capture a bird in flight, or to defend yourself in the case of guns, your responses should be automatic. The subconscious part of your brain "reads and reacts". U don't want the slow, logical part of ur brain doing all the work during that time saying to urself, "I need to turn on this switch, then I should..." that's my thoughts anyway.

The two main benefits I see Of a laser (I don't use them except to test recoil response when playing with different muzzle compensators etc) are intimidation factor and being able to shoot without using sights in certain situations (both shown in video below). But withoutbeing proficient in other areas first, then being proficient using the laser, it could be a hindrance when ur body is in fight orflight mode.

FPD - train the brain, imagine that!? Practice different scenarios? Wooo! After action discussion. What may have been a better consideration? Good sh-t right here. Save a bucket full of money before deciding if you need an aid, or aid a need. Tools. Ever try to change the oil in your mode of getting around with just "good intensions". Tools!
I have found over the decades, once deciding I am going to train to train my self was which pistol, I discovered, how many which pistols. What season, what clothing, what event, what time of day, what activity. Many what whatz to think of, however; the thunkin had to begin way before this. To be prepared, one needs to recognize the miriad of considerations involved to decide to decide. One is never enough for me. Stay safe, prepare, defend everything you feel is important, not what others tell you you should think. A wise man once told me "Deciding to decide is the 1st step in the decision making process." Enough for now, I'm out, until I'm in again.

 

[CRBMoA]

^^That actually makes a lot of sense if you read it twice and go slowly^^

 

[albin25]

I'm thinkin' that they do have their uses.
I'd imagine a laser would work great if you are unable to/can't get the weapon's scope/sights up into alignment with your eye...
.... not so much if you're trying to hit something when shooting from the pocket of a jacket.

But, if you find yourself in a restaurant/bar/cat-house, scrunched under a table ....

There's also the consideration of permanent /temporary physical infirmity/handicap such as arm in a cast, sprained shoulder and such.

 

[oldcorpgunny]

Hmmn, 01 Gunny? Non-IR lasers have a limited use but how do you perform threat identification in the dark without a weapon mounted or handheld light? Confirmation bias is one of the biggest impediments to real learning. We should strive to avoid it.

In the real world you shoot at the sound. In Vietnam you learned the Vietnamese word for doctor (Bac Si) so that when you heard the wounded VC calling that word, you would know when and where to throw your hand grenades. Please feel free to make all the threat determinations that you want. I was in the business of eliminating the threat.

Hmmn, 01 Gunny? Non-IR lasers have a limited use but how do you perform threat identification in the dark without a weapon mounted or handheld light? Confirmation bias is one of the biggest impediments to real learning. We should strive to avoid it.

 

[asiparks]

The beautiful thing about Lasers / Iron sights is you can have both- If you have the opportunity to use irons, you can, and if you need to shoot Gruber from the hip, then you have laser.
I can get a dot on target pivoting from the draw much quicker than I can draw, bring the gun to eye level, aign sights on target. Tthat said, I've seen people shoot with lasers, absolutely astonished that their bullets aren't all flying down the beam into the bullseye, because right after they get the dot steady, they're squeezing on the trigger like it's a naughty snake .
So one thing that dancing dot does do very well is make you painfully aware of trigger control, grip, breathing and follow through, so I'd argue it's a great training aid for live fire or dry fire at the TV.
Does it replace iron sights, nah, sometimes too hard to see at dark clothing at distance on a sunny day, but it's not doing much harm either, it's a tool that expands the utility of your weapon. Given the right circumstances, the additional capability to shoot at a dot when you can't get head/rear sight/front sight/target aligned makes sense- 1 thing to focus on, on 1 plane rather than mentally compile 3 at different distances. I can't make an arguement for increased situational awareness as I've never had to shoot at anything during a massive, vision tunnelling adrenaline dump, but it sound plausible...

 

[Kruel J]

If they both are in alignment at the co-witnessed preestablished distance I'm fairly sure that I have not lost zero. If they differ I know I need to check my zero.
Bullets don't fly like lasers point? Not sure what your point is. Never mentioned bullet flight only thought I was discussing intersecting points of aim for different aiming devices. Do I need to explain how the coriolis effect would not likely come into play also?


BTW my rocket scientist brother in law (the real deal) has told me that like a fired projectile a laser beam is affected by gravity. Not something that we mere mortals would notice however to NASA it is a consideration in some cases.

Light is indeed affected by gravity. But it takes a heck of a lot to have any real effect. Black holes are a good example of this.

As far as bullet flight, I may have overstepped on that comment.

 

[2gunnztoo]

FPD - train the brain, imagine that!? Practice different scenarios? Wooo! After action discussion. What may have been a better consideration? Good sh-t right here. Save a bucket full of money before deciding if you need an aid, or aid a need. Tools. Ever try to change the oil in your mode of getting around with just "good intensions". Tools!
I have found over the decades, once deciding I am going to train to train my self was which pistol, I discovered, how many which pistols. What season, what clothing, what event, what time of day, what activity. Many what whatz to think of, however; the thunkin had to begin way before this. To be prepared, one needs to recognize the miriad of considerations involved to decide to decide. One is never enough for me. Stay safe, prepare, defend everything you feel is important, not what others tell you you should think. A wise man once told me "Deciding to decide is the 1st step in the decision making process." Enough for now, I'm out, until I'm in again.

I'm in! Just by chance I went off to do....things & happen to go thru emails when I found this, americanhandgunner.com/video/gun-cranks-live/top-secret-training-tips/. Funny, insightful, entertaining. apprx. 40 minutes
I say, time well spent. Combined, these guyz probably provide 150 years of experience. Knowledge less expensive than a box 50 round .22s! Spend the time, leave a remark. You'll have $$ in, well, where ever you keep yours. These guys even have trouble stay on the thread. Funny, funny, funny. ooops, I may have learned something as well.

 

[The Heretic]

Thanks for the reminder, I need to send one back to Streamlight.

The other night I switched one to laser/light and the laser did not come on. Eventually I got it to come on, but yes, I have had Streamlights fail on me. I have one Surefire light without laser - I wish their laser/light combos were not so expensive.

 

[NCW_Robert]

I am old enough to need reading glasses so I tried out a laser and like it due to that. Then I discovered how well a laser works in low/no light. I walk my dogs at night with a flash light and with my laser sighted pistol. I can not see the iron sights well at all even with the flashlight. I can vary carefully and slowly line the iron sights up while using the flashlight. If a dog or cougar showed up and attacked I would be able to get the laser dot on it and fire much faster then if I tried to line up the iron sights.

True many people do have the wrong idea initially, about why a laser needs to be on their gun, but so what. What ever works is what ever works.

I just moved from small town USA to huge city/urban environment where crime happens as that is the way it is in huge urban environments. I eat out, it is usually after dark, go to a movie? usually later specially when it lets out and I have to walk out in a dark parking lot. I am much better prepared to deal with threats in that environment now with a laser on my pistol. I have proven it to myself with my practice routines and hit ratio under low light.

So far Crimson Trace lasers have been head and shoulders above all others. Recently decided to replace my cheap but good laser equipped Kel tec PF9 with something better. Considered the SA Hellcat and the sig P365 as both are high quality guns that are vary small and have good reviews.

Going with the sig P365 due to red and green CT lasers available and for me that is simply a must have accessory for the reasons stated above.

If you don't think you need a laser then you don't. I certainly did not until I did and then I discovered how much quicker/better they allow me to hit in low light.

~

 

[L84Cabo]

Lasers are useful in very specific, but limited situations. They are another tool in the toolbox. That is all. They are not a replacement for iron sights and BOTH need to be trained with. And they are definitely not a replacement for a white light.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

How often do all you folks who don't see a need for anything but iron sights try to function in a combat situation? I spent a few years when I was young and spry playing professional tournament paintball. This was not as you see it on TV in a tennis court sized field with inflatable obstacles. This was in the woods on many acres, and sometimes involved simulated villages and forts.

When people are shooting back at you there's little time for target acquisition or using iron sights. A red dot or a laser is helpful, even if you are adept at shooting where you are looking. I have my AR set up with a super powerful light, a 1X scope, a red dot, and a laser. I can see everything at night out to about 100 yards with the light. I can see the laser even with the light on. The red dot also is useful at night, while the scope is pretty useless except in broad daylight. Each item has its own advantages under different conditions.

 

[Kruel J]

How often do all you folks who don't see a need for anything but iron sights try to function in a combat situation? I spent a few years when I was young and spry playing professional tournament paintball. This was not as you see it on TV in a tennis court sized field with inflatable obstacles. This was in the woods on many acres, and sometimes involved simulated villages and forts.

When people are shooting back at you there's little time for target acquisition or using iron sights. A red dot or a laser is helpful, even if you are adept at shooting where you are looking. I have my AR set up with a super powerful light, a 1X scope, a red dot, and a laser. I can see everything at night out to about 100 yards with the light. I can see the laser even with the light on. The red dot also is useful at night, while the scope is pretty useless except in broad daylight. Each item has its own advantages under different conditions.

100 yards? You need a better light!

 

[Howard1955]

All you haters will be changing your tune when Crimson Trace announces their new WMT (weapon- mounted trebuchet) that can throw light 200 yards.