Crazy how many people want lasers on their pistols.

ZigZagZeke · Dec 6, 2020

My main carry weapon has a laser on it. I can use it if I want to, or I can leave it turned off and ignore it. I'm 73 and had cataract surgery last year. I can't see iron sights very well. If I need sights at all, the laser might come in handy. My HD AR is set up for operating at night in the woods (where my house is). I have my choice of 1x scope, red dot, laser, and/or 2000 lumen light operated with paddle switches where appropriate. The light, laser, and red dot work well together at night. The scope and the red dot work during the day. Why wouldn't I use all the tools at my disposal? Is it unfair? Unmanly? There are rules for deadly combat now? If I'm involved in a gun fight do I care what you think?

Cape_hunter · Dec 7, 2020

Dinglenutz said:
Mostly on weekends and my lunch hours.

CAS and 3-gun guys do 2-3x that yearly. Better up those numbers

bbbass · Dec 7, 2020

Ummmmm yeah....

I don't own any guns that have laser only on them. (I remember when my oldest bro was a newbie to EDC and equipped his brand new Shield 9mm with a Crimson Trace... we went out to practice action shooting and he was slo slo slo!! I tried to encourage him to learn his sights by shooting IDPA in N Las Vegas but he didn't take to it at all... eventually gave up carrying.)

I do own 2 reflex optics (nice bright dots inside a circle, or dot only, selectable red or green) and two laser/light combos. Both are on Home Defense weapons. My 12ga combat shotgun has a reflex optic, a 1200 candlepower light under the barrel, and a laser on the side activated by a button switch with my left hand just above the slide. The gun serves yard/perimeter or block defense duty in case of outside the house troubles, BLM/AntiFA, or SHTF.

My home defense 10.5" faux sbr sports a reflex optic, and an underbarrel light/laser. The center of the light circle is where the point of impact is at 10yds, and the laser shines about 4" below that... I'm ok with using both at the same time even tho I can deselect the laser with a push of my finger. Using a tactical light inside the house IMO is critical. I don't want to shoot my wife as she is returning from the can, and certainly if a drunk has inadvertently entered the home he/she prob doesn't need to be shot if unthreatening.

Tho I currently have a Judge and a handheld taclight in the nightstand, in the past I have had a G34 with a laser/light combo under the barrel. I have only had to house clear once, and the light on the full sized Glock was very useful, center of light is POI on a torso sized target inside the home, didn't care about the laser one way or the other.

IMO WML AND a handheld taclight are critical duty items for LEOs assigned to patrol. If one doubts this, spend some time with ASP YouTube channel vids... evidence based training, and learn about overcoming photonic barriers. (Note, the handheld is needed for those times when an officer does not want to be pointing his weapon at somebody.)

Dinglenutz · Dec 7, 2020

bbbass said:
I don't own any guns that have laser only on them.

I have two - one is a S&W 360PD where I was mostly looking to be able to get a better handhold on the little beast, and the other is a S&W Bodyguard 380 that came that way. Several have WML only (couple Mossbergs w/ lights built into the fore - end etc) as well, but for the most part if it has a light, I try to make it a light+laser because why not have it all?

With my eyes, some sort of optic is becoming more than nice to have.

powermad · Dec 7, 2020

I do have it set up on my nightstand gun with a small handheld light.
I don't use the laser, though it is zeroed for 10 yards.

Of course a couple months after I got it they released the new version with paddles instead of buttons.

bbbass · Dec 7, 2020

Dinglenutz said:
I have two - one is a S&W 360PD where I was mostly looking to be able to get a better handhold on the little beast, and the other is a S&W Bodyguard 380 that came that way. Several have WML only (couple Mossbergs w/ lights built into the fore - end etc) as well, but for the most part if it has a light, I try to make it a light+laser because why not have it all?

With my eyes, some sort of optic is becoming more than nice to have.

I'd love to try an optic on my competition pistol. But my right eye is completely useless for pistol after a steroid shot for macular edema went wrong, and mostly useless for rifle looking thru a scope at 100yds. So I shoot right handed pistol with left eye. Not sure if I need to add the challenge of finding the lil dot in IDPA, tho it's becoming real popular with competitors. My scores have gone down a lot with aging and illness. Didn't shoot any matches this year, but looking forward to it next year now that I have had foot surgery. Gonna take off the Big Dot sights and go back to the Heinie light pipe sights. I would recommend to anybody wanting the Big Dot sight set to get the smaller dot size since it's hard to get used to the big dot at 25yds.

Mikej · Dec 7, 2020

At the risk of offending someone, making them not want to post here, I'll offer my opinion. I have a red laser on my SR-9c for the inside/bedside gun. My opinion is, THAT is a viable use for a laser on a handgun.

I hope that was okay for those that get triggered by opinions different than their own. If not, I sincerely apologize.

Furthermore, I vow to NOT become offended and not post anymore if members of the membership disagree with me.

Dinglenutz · Dec 7, 2020

bbbass said:
Not sure if I need to add the challenge of finding the lil dot

FWIW I shoot red dot using both eyes.

Frank RW · Dec 7, 2020

Sixsa said:
Anyone else wanna validate me, or argue with me?

Lots of use for a laser on a gun besides pointing it at the bad guy.

For me, it's mostly a built-in practice tool that could be handy in an emergency. Doesn't need to be a big ol' bulky thing either.

But I wouldn't rely on it, 'cause it runs on batteries.

Dinglenutz · Dec 7, 2020

Frank RW said:
For me, it's mostly a built-in practice tool that could be handy in an emergency.

One of the reasons I went with the CT grips on my 360PD is help in diagnosing why I'm so incapable with a DA revolver. It's a great tool to show what I'm doing as compared with what I meant to do at the range. Also humbling if anyone else is watching.

powermad · Dec 7, 2020

bbbass said:
I would recommend to anybody wanting the Big Dot sight set to get the smaller dot size since it's hard to get used to the big dot at 25yds.

I didn't like them on a full sized gun.
But I do like them on small guns like my 365 as I'm not trying to hit a 9" plate at 25 yds with it.
Just about perfect at 15 yds for me.

One thing about red dots.
Unlike a scope your focal point is not the reticle but the target.
Both eyes open focusing on the target and you hold the dot over the target.
Even if your sight is perfect and the dot is crisp when you focus on it, it won't be if your focus is on the target and will be out of focus anyway.
Make sense?

Holosun has a new ACSS red dot coming out that looks pretty interesting.

Mikej · Dec 7, 2020

Dinglenutz said:
One of the reasons I went with the CT grips on my 360PD is help in diagnosing why I'm so incapable with a DA revolver. It's a great tool to show what I'm doing as compared with what I meant to do at the range. Also humbling if anyone else is watching.

I played with the laser on theSR9c, and Wifey has an SP 101 with a grip laser, at the range. 50', easy to see on target, really only good to work on steadiness. Really looks silly when someone down a few tables is shooting mag after mag with the laser.

bbbass · Dec 7, 2020

powermad said:
I didn't like them on a full sized gun.
But I do like them on small guns like my 365 as I'm not trying to hit a 9" plate at 25 yds with it.
Just about perfect at 15 yds for me.

I liked the Big Dot rear sight (express shallow V) and the bigger dot was great at intermediate distance in IDPA. Say 5-10yds. But I don't use sights under 5yds, and they had us doing head shots at 20-25yds. The large dot is not accurate enough for that despite claims by Big Dot that you can use the top of the dot for sighting at that distance... I'm sure you could hit a standing polar bear with them at 25yds, but I was at a real disadvantage doing IDPA head shots, so I'm switching them out. An option would be to buy the smaller dot but I'd have to buy the entire set since the heights of front and rear have to match up. Not willing to spend the money again.

Dinglenutz · Dec 7, 2020

powermad said:
Both eyes open focusing on the target and you hold the dot over the target.
Even if your sight is perfect and the dot is crisp when you focus on it, it won't be if your focus is on the target and will be out of focus anyway.

Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but this is not what I seem to experience.

For me, when I shoot a red dot on a handgun, both eyes open, it seems as if the optics of the red dot and the optics of my eyes (glasses optional) conspire to present the illusion that I'm seeing a laser-like dot on the plane I'm focussing on, but it's magical in that only I can see the dot. The dot itself seems always in focus, but I've honestly never experimented with trying to make it fuzzy on purpose - might be possible.

Will_White · Dec 7, 2020

Dinglenutz said:
Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but this is not what I seem to experience.

For me, when I shoot a red dot on a handgun, both eyes open, it seems as if the optics of the red dot and the optics of my eyes (glasses optional) conspire to present the illusion that I'm seeing a laser-like dot on the plane I'm focussing on, but it's magical in that only I can see the dot. The dot itself seems always in focus, but I've honestly never experimented with trying to make it fuzzy on purpose - might be possible.

That's my (admittedly limited) experience with red dots on pistols as well, my problem with them on defensive pistols is I have trouble with finding the dot quickly. Having iron sights might help with that I have mine on a target pistol that only has a rail.

CRBMoA · Dec 7, 2020

ZigZagZeke · Dec 7, 2020

bordersoldier said:
Tens of thousands, WOW several Tens of thousands even more WOW!! I'm impressed. 3rd Battalion 5th Marines didn't expend that much ordinance during the entire pacific island campaign, and won it without benefit of red dot. Goodness wherever did you find the time?

How about 5000 rounds per weekend, 20 weekends a year for 6 years? That's 600,000 rounds, 90% of it in 5 man squad type combat situations in the woods. I found a red dot on my tournament grade paintball marker helpful in those situations for the occasional 30-40 yard shot. My preferred role was stealth flanker sniper. There's nothing like sniper versus sniper in the woods for generating a shot of adrenaline.

My HD AR-15 handles pretty much exactly like my paintball markers.

Juniper9mm · Dec 7, 2020

Doesn't surprise me. Some people are even mounting them on sharks.

powermad · Dec 7, 2020

With my astigmatism the distortion of the dot is more pronounced if I focus on it.
Everyone's eyes see things differently as well.
I'm cross eye dominate which effects how I see it depending on how I hold my head with bi-focals too.

The nice thing about a red dot is it doesn't matter how I hold my head in relation to the sight.
I shoot iron sights with my chin on my right shoulder in order to see the target and sights clearly.
Not so much a problem shooting off hand other than just feels odd because I haven't practiced enough to get used to it.
I can use a red dot as if I wasn't X-dominate with my head at a natural angle and not kinked over, which is much more comfortable for me these days.

Thankfully we live in an age where there are aiming devices that make it easier to shoot well when time catches up with us and all that.
Bottom line is no matter what you use, practice and be able to use it effectively.

pigiron · Dec 7, 2020

I never could get used to the dot of the laser jiggling all over the place no matter how well I was gripping a pistol. However any sort of red dot sight on a rifle works really well for me. The next gen headgear the Army is testing goes full-on Terminator (or is that Predator?)