National Court Ruling on ATF Rule Change re Bump Stocks

[awshoot]

Bumpstocks are a bit of a black sheep and not many people want to take up their legal defense. If this recent decision at the trial court level holds up on appeal, the bumpstock issue could become a real danger to firearm ownership in general: Federal judge upholds ATF ban on bump stocks set for March link to the actual decision: https://ecf.dcd.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/show_public_doc?2018cv2988-27

I'm concerned about it not because I love bump stocks -- never had one -- but because some very good arguments were raised and dismissed:

1. The executive branch should not be able to make laws by decree as happened here (not an executive function).
2. This new law is a taking of property without compensation -- owners will have to destroy their property March 26th.

With respect to #1, just imagine Feinstein issuing decrees willy nilly.

As for #2, the Court got around the 5A's prohibition on takings by saying anyone who has a bump stock, could just sue the Government under the Tucker Act (page 32 of the PDF). This ignores the fact that a bump stock is probably worth somewhere between $100 and $200 and the amount it would take to sue the Feds in filing fees and attorney fees is many times greater than the amount one could recover -- who is going to spend $5000 to get back $150?

What if someday soon, some gun grabber is in the White House and by executive fiat makes something I own illegal overnight by jiggering with some regulatory definition? That would leave me with the option of paying $5000 or more to recover $750 or losing the value. If this ruling holds up on appeal, that very thing could happen, and because nobody loves bumpstocks, an appellate court ruling could well become a trojan horse through apathy.

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[Jabba]

Should be able to take them to small claims court for your cost of the stock. I agree on point 1, it's becoming a hallmark of American democracy.

 

[Superglide]

Both points (1&2) should be of grave concern to those in support of freedom and the Constitution.
I am also not a bump stock owner nor proponent. BUT looking down the road a piece, I see this morphing into catastrophic restrictions very easily.
Those in Milwaukie Oregon may recall saying no thank you to the light rail project, and it happens anyway.
Now please turn in your inappropriate, non-autonamous "gas guzzler" vehicles, or else.....

 

[Ura-Ki]

Dangerous days ahead my friends, When a Non Lawmaker public servent thinks it's ok to make laws with out due process, were going to have MAJOR problems in our fight for 2nd rights! AND, no one has bothered to block said law making bodes ill toward our future!

 

[awshoot]

Should be able to take them to small claims court for your cost of the stock. I agree on point 1, it's becoming a hallmark of American democracy.

You will have to go to Federal Court if you want to sue the Feds. Small claims is state court and doesn't have jurisdiction over the Federal gov't.

 

[Alexx1401]

This is again something gun owners are bringing on themselves. Then they get mad. Gun owners vote in people who are against them. Either by sitting out elections, or throwing away their vote. Many have the "I don't own xyz and don't want to so I don't care." Works fine till the people they helped elect come after something they do like. Then they scream <shrug>

 

[awshoot]

This is again something gun owners are bringing on themselves. Then they get mad. Gun owners vote in people who are against them. Either by sitting out elections, or throwing away their vote. Many have the "I don't own xyz and don't want to so I don't care." Works fine till the people they helped elect come after something they do like. Then they scream <shrug>

I agree in part and disagree in part. The person who instigated the ATF to redefine the definition of "automatic" was Trump (and didn't the NRA suggest this path too?). I don't really know what the solution is for politicians who renege on a pledge.

Hopefully the courts will come through on this one, but bumpstocks are sort of like a face-tatted-wife-beating-methhead who has his 4th Amendment rights violated -- it's hard to get people to care about principles of law when the immediate subject of the ruling is unsympathetic. 10+ years down the road when that law gets applied to sympathetic subjects people finally take notice, but too late. Which brings me to where we agree: people being apathetic about things they don't like and later finding that apathy biting them -- exactly correct.

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[Alexx1401]

I agree in part and disagree in part. The person who instigated the ATF to redefine the definition of "automatic" was Trump (and didn't the NRA suggest this path too?). I don't really know what the solution is for politicians who renege on a pledge.

Hopefully the courts will come through on this one, but bumpstocks are sort of like a face-tatted-wife-beating-methhead who has his 4th Amendment rights violated -- it's hard to get people to care about principles of law when the immediate subject of the ruling is unsympathetic. 10+ years down the road when that law gets applied to sympathetic subjects people finally take notice, but too late. Which brings me to where we agree: people being apathetic about things they don't like and later finding that apathy biting them -- exactly correct.

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We always end up with a certain amount of "our guys" not helping. Many were not around to remember but it was Regan who took the Full auto stuff from us. Often it's because they have so little support from gun owners, and they want to get elected again. I and some buddies used to have some full auto stuff. Used to shoot at an old rock quarry. I lost track of the times some other shooter would call the Police on us. Would start with one running over to tell us what we had was illegal. I would at first try to educate them. Mention a HUGE well known gun shop there, ask if they knew of it. They would say of course. I would say they are a Class III dealer and if they ask they would show them some stuff and explain how to buy. Some were interested. A LOT would proclaim us full of bull. At that point I was done told them go away. Often one would jump in their car to run for a pay phone to call the law. After a couple times out there they would no longer even respond. Flash forward to today and nothing has changed. When you have gun owners who still have the "Bill Ruger" attitude what are the politicians supposed to do who are pro gun? They can't even get support from a large portion of the gun owners. When they started talking about telling 18-20 year old people they could serve in the Military but not buy a gun some on this forum were all in on this idea.
It's hard to blame the "moderate" pro people when gun owners will not support them. If gun owners ever start to stand together for several elections things will slowly start to get better. It will take time though and it would take support from a lot of gun owners who to this point could not be bothered.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

Is Washington State still offering $$$ for these?

 

[awshoot]

Is Washington State still offering $$$ for these?

I would guess WA stops paying when they go illegal Federally, but that's just a guess.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

Looks like they are waiting on Olympia to allocate the money State moving quickly on plan to buy up banned bump stocks | HeraldNet.com

 

[awshoot]

Looks like they are waiting on Olympia to allocate the money State moving quickly on plan to buy up banned bump stocks | HeraldNet.com

We'll see what happens -- one politician saying he wants to keep his promise. I'm skeptical.

 

[KKG]

This should be some VERY Good News for those who bought their Bump Stocks in WA. Seems they(out Legislators) are working on a Bill to Buy Back Program the ones purchased in WA. But, I have to wonder if this will make it past our AG AG or the AT Govenator I have to really question wether it'll fly or Crash and Burn.

 

[KKG]

That Sleeping DOG is going to wake up pretty soon I think!!!

 

[titsonritz]

That Sleeping DOG is going to wake up pretty soon I think!!!

Been hearing that for over 40 years, wake me up when it happens.

 

[Makers Mark]

Wouldn't surprise me to see some of the government entities, national and/or local anti-gun organizations, or national or local news outfits make a PR play on the collection and 'destruction' of these evil bump stocks.

I'm not the least interested in bump stocks, but this whole thing just makes me sick.

 

[Gbirk]

Executive orders are BAD. Full stop.
Emergency declarations are BAD. Full stop.

I don't care who or what side of what argument you are on, giving the Executive branch that much power is BAD!

 

[Goosebrown]

Looks like they are waiting on Olympia to allocate the money State moving quickly on plan to buy up banned bump stocks | HeraldNet.com

They're going to need $59 maybe $75 to buy back all that are going to get turned in...

 

[Jabba]

They're going to need $59 maybe $75 to buy back all that are going to get turned in...

I don't know, whip up something homemade that can slide on a buffer tube attached to a hand grip and BOOM, there's your $150 check from the state. Doesn't say it needs to be store bought. Kinda wish I lived in washington.

 

[awshoot]

I don't know, whip up something homemade that can slide on a buffer tube attached to a hand grip and BOOM, there's your $150 check from the state. Doesn't say it needs to be store bought. Kinda wish I lived in washington.

Too late -- you had to have this done before July 1, 2018. To make it now would be a crime. Honestly, I did fantasize about making 100 or so just to cash in, but didn't do it ultimately. I felt like I'd be risking running afoul of some law or regulation I didn't know about so dropped the idea.