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So I have a few questions about reloading.

1) how much dent is too much dent is brass. I'm rather picky and could toss a lot of my once fired brass because of dents so I wanted to know what's too much dent.

2). What tolerance should one be using when reloading. Pretty much talking case over all length. 2.800 for example. Is 2.805 too much? Standard military inspection is +/- 0.004. Industry standard is +/- 0.005. Right now I'm being so picky that 2.800 to me means 2.8005 or 2.7995.

3) along that same Line. Let's talk about tolerance on powders. Let's say 39.5gr. Is 39.4 or 39.6 just fine?


Thanks much,
James
 
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Here is a sample of a majority of what I see for dents. Another real scenario. Case length should be trimmed to 2.005. I'm noticing with the trimming gage some are coming out 1.999 or 1.998 or 2.000

20190811_145838.jpg
 
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1. What kind of brass?
a. I won't accept a vertical dent in the mouth of pistol brass at all. A sideways dent can usually be pushed out if it's not dramatic..
b. Rifle brass such as you show above, I can blow out with the next firing. However, I wouldn't expect consistent accuracy compared to other undented rounds. Such dents can affect headspacing. If you have lot's of brass, toss those.

2. OAL only slightly affects accuracy, or is a concern, unless it gets so long that the bullet is seating in the lands when chambered. Some jump is needed into the throat, but not too much. So IMO .005 should be fine... .0005 is way too picky. Just try to be consistent.

3. Yes. However, with a powder trickler and a little care, you can keep it right on the money!!

I'm not as knowledgeable as many of the other members, especially on reloading for rifles. If somebody contradicts what I wrote, they are probably correct. FWIW
 
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1) too much lube on your case will cause that denting. Be sure the vent hole is clear and clean on your sizing die. Those dents are OK, cannot say whether or not they will affect your accuracy. Basically, once it's dented, you need to fire it to reform the case.
2) tolerance is published in the SAAMI specs. Really depends on your chamber. Generally, undersized is OK to a point, oversized too much won't fit. YMMV. I try to find one that fits, set everything and recheck, then leave it alone. I have some that are -0.020 (i.e. 2.780 OAL), etc. Base to shoulder too long or too short causes problems, neck too long causes more problems than neck too short, etc. If you're holding to 0.005, then you should be good. What counts is finding the load/size/powder & bullet fit for YOUR gun.
3) 0.1 grain, in my experience, doesn't matter. Then again, I'm not shooting single holes.

ETA, better to be very stringent about the details at first, then learn what you can be relaxed about, and what really matters in your gun.
Also note, my comments above apply mostly to case dimensions. The OAL of 2.800 in your specific gun does not always work. For example, a some PSP or RN rifle bullets have a blunt ogive, and loading them to 2.800 in a 308 almost guarantees they will not fit.
 
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All rifle brass for now. If I were to toss out brass from dents i would blow thru all my brass quickly. Deep scratches and dents like shown above seem to be the norm in what I'm planning to load up now so it would be tossing most.

Just trying to gauge overall tolerances. Me I like to be 100% spot on but that takes a lot of extra time.

It's a bad thing that I'm in quality management so I am prob a lot more visually picky than most as I have discussed cosmetic standarda a lot in my lifetime. That was manly what I was afraid of in reloading. My extreme attention to detail and measurements. I've been a quality inspector/for uality management for over 15yrs

Thanks
James
 
Thanks for pointing me into the direction of SAAMI drawings. That's exactly what I was looking for as far as measurements go.

Now I just need to get a general consensus on powders if +/-0.2 gr is acceptable as far as accuracy goes. I've been loading right around the middle spec goes. So for 308 with 4895 powder I've been doing 39.0 to 39.5 depending on the actual bullet. Just switched from hornady atip to Nosler match and Nosler ballistic (wanted some green tips lol)
 
It sounds like you need to get one of the Basics of Reloading books and/or two or three of them. I don't have real good access to my Library at the moment or I'd make some better suggestions. I know there have been several listed in the Classifieds lately. fleaBay is also a good location for them. Good Luck and be VERY careful:

No Drinking of anything at your Reloading Bench/Room!!!

ABSOLUTELY NO Smoking of "any kind" while in your Reloading Room!!!

A lot depends upon just what Cartridge(s) you plan on Reloading for. You might want to ask some of the Folks here or some of the Folks you shoot with if any Reload and if they would be willing to help you get started. You might also check with your LGS/Range to see if they offer Classes.

It looks like you really need to get some help with your Shooting and Reloading. Good Luck.

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Comment About an Earlier Post:

Here is a sample of a majority of what I see for dents. Another real scenario. Case length should be trimmed to 2.005. I'm noticing with the trimming gage some are coming out 1.999 or 1.998 or 2.000

View attachment 607749
Dents likes those are caused by WAY too much oil being left in the Chamber and can be VERY dangerous, because the pressure is WAY too High and can cause the Chamber to become damaged. The Rifle should be Inspected by a Riflesmith before shooting again. IMHO

END of COMMENT
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All rifle brass for now. If I were to toss out brass from dents i would blow thru all my brass quickly. Deep scratches and dents like shown above seem to be the norm in what I'm planning to load up now so it would be tossing most.

Just trying to gauge overall tolerances. Me I like to be 100% spot on but that takes a lot of extra time.

It's a bad thing that I'm in quality management so I am prob a lot more visually picky than most as I have discussed cosmetic standarda a lot in my lifetime. That was manly what I was afraid of in reloading. My extreme attention to detail and measurements. I've been a quality inspector/for uality management for over 15yrs

Thanks
James

Sorry, you really don't need to toss if you are willing to do a little fire forming to get a batch of good brass.

If being more accurate in measurements gives you pleasure, go for it. Being less accurate that is safe would not be a good thing. On powder, the larger the charge, the less important a fraction of a grain is... but when shooting for accuracy, IMO keep it as tight as a trickler and a scale can give you. Many digital scales are accurate to only .2gr... that's not good enough for me for rifle accuracy.

Doing what works in YOUR rifle is the thing.
 
Looks like your loading is going very similarly to mine tight at the start, dents and all. Give it powder and shoot anyway. It's doubtful your first handful of rounds will be match grade, but who knows. Chalk it up to practice. It's a really rewarding experience
 
Looks like hydraulic denting. Little heavy of the hand on the lube. dial it back on the lube and that'll stop happening. As for the scratches, DEEP longitudinal gouges are from foreign objects/dirt in your die, unless your shooting a HK with a fluted chamber and its murdering your brass. Hit your die with some break free or other degreaser. Take it apart and clean it really well.

Yeah i don't know about oil in your chamber causing those dents. The amount of force required to dent the shoulder of a LOADED round IN THE CHAMBER would exceed the force needed to move that oil out through the path of least resistance which in this case is THROUGH THE BORE.

As for powder tolerance- unless you trickle every single one, you'll probably never be on the money without a very precise powder measure. Certain drops have a margin of error, a tenth of a grain is probably within that- its pretty minuscule amount if you think about it. Trimming brass to the thousandth to me, is extreme. I dont shoot for surgical though. If you enjoy the process though, go nuts man.
 
In order.

1. Applying appropriate amounts of case lube is a learned thing, you will get better at it the more you do it. If you get too much lube on one case, skip lube on the next one to clear it out. The dents will "fire out" and cases will resume their natural shape. You say you're not loading to the upper end of charges, I doubt there would be any issue with dangerous pressures due to case capacity loss. Accuracy is enhanced by consistency, so obviously oil dents are not desired for high accuracy shooting.

I fire many rounds in semi-autos, .223, .308 and .30-06. Which leave dents in the walls from ejection, dings in the mouth from same or from hitting pavement. I reuse all of them absent any other defects.

At the instant of ignition, there is case wall expansion behind the shoulder so oil dents should have no effect on gas seal.

Every once in a while, I get a batch of cases that have excessive friction inside the neck. These need lubing to reduce case stretch as the expander ball comes back out of the case. I've tried powdered mica, it doesn't work well. So I lube inside the neck with water soluble RCBS case lube. I rinse the lube off the cases anyway, this doesn't add any work in that respect. BUT. The lube that is pulled back out of the case neck by the expander ball will goop out and get into the die body, thence onto the next case in line. When I lube inside the neck, I find that I have to pull the die and clean it out every so often to keep from getting dents.

2. Case length. Get a cartridge headspace gauge. That will quickly tell you what is acceptable or not. Over length, I don't like. You don't want case brass jammed into or up against the leade of the rifling. Long enough and the bolt won't close. It can also cause you to get into problems when seating bullets, depending upon technique and bullet type used. Under length, not much of a problem. In fact, I cut my .223's a little short so I don't have to trim as often.

3. Accuracy of charge, e.g., off .1 of a grain. What kind of shooting do you do? The answer to this second question will determine the answer to the first. Me, I mostly do "service grade" shooting with semi-autos. The only time I notice the difference of .1 grain is if I see it on the scale, Factory ammo, do you think they use powder tricklers to load ammo? They use machines. Take ten rounds of factory ammo apart carefully and weigh the charges, see what you come up with. Usually I only weigh every single charge when I'm developing and testing loads fired across a chronograph but there are exceptions. When I load single stage, I'm usually throwing charges with a powder measure and spot checking as necessary. Loading with the Dillon progressive, I spot check every once in a while. You can't individually measure charges with a progressive outfit, that goes against the efficiency of the design.

You can increase accuracy of thrown charges by selecting propellants that dispense easily. That is, spherical and extruded powders that are cut short.
 
Thanks to everyone that gave me some good info. Much appreciated and easier than reading back thru a book.


It sounds like you need to get one of the Basics of Reloading books and/or two or three of them. I don't have real good access to my Library at the moment or I'd make some better suggestions. I know there have been several listed in the Classifieds lately. fleaBay is also a good location for them. Good Luck and be VERY careful:

No Drinking of anything at your Reloading Bench/Room!!!

ABSOLUTELY NO Smoking of "any kind" while in your Reloading Room!!!

A lot depends upon just what Cartridge(s) you plan on Reloading for. You might want to ask some of the Folks here or some of the Folks you shoot with if any Reload and if they would be willing to help you get started. You might also check with your LGS/Range to see if they offer Classes.

It looks like you really need to get some help with your Shooting and Reloading. Good Luck.

******************************************

***** Start Rant******
KKG.. do you have an issue with me or do you just assume that if someone asks a question the are a complete idiot. I smoke all the time while I'm reloading. Actually smoke right above the scale as I'm measuring powder. And sometimes I spill my drink in the 1lb poqder container but I say hell with it and move on. Seriously though. If you can't provide kind and useful information please refrain from replying to my threads.

***** end of rant.


Thanks again to everyone else who provided kind and useful information

James
 
Measure your reloads from the bullet ogive, not the tip. I use a Hornady comparator for my loads.

I weigh all my hunting loads and I want it to be right on. 59.0 means 59.0, the scale has an internal margin of error but I'm picky. My .223 reloads are thrown using a Lee powder thrower, I'm plus or minus .2 of a grain. I check every 20 or so loads sometimes maybe. It doesn't seem to matter out to 650 yards.

And I rarely full length resize, I neck size using a Lee collet neck sizing die.

Dented brass like that would go into the trash, but I have a lot of brass.

Take good notes. Use a different book for every cartridge. I keep threatening to use a different book for each rifle but that's getting crazy.




P
 
I use the Little Crow Gunworks WFT for trimming. Pretty consistent. I don't worry about .02 or .04 off.

Heck, how you hold the rifle has more impact on accuracy that a few hundredths of just about anything.
 
Thanks to everyone that gave me some good info. Much appreciated and easier than reading back thru a book.




***** Start Rant******
KKG.. do you have an issue with me or do you just assume that if someone asks a question the are a complete idiot. I smoke all the time while I'm reloading. Actually smoke right above the scale as I'm measuring powder. And sometimes I spill my drink in the 1lb poqder container but I say hell with it and move on. Seriously though. If you can't provide kind and useful information please refrain from replying to my threads.

***** end of rant.


Thanks again to everyone else who provided kind and useful information

James
Well you have done an Amazing, Truly Outstanding and whatever other words that can be used to define your work in and/or around the Shooting/Reloading World to Properly describe You. I have taken what I consider the VERY BEST Step in Our Relationship Here by placing have On my Ignore List, where, by your Comments you have proven you belong! KKG
 
Thanks everyone. I went out and shot another batch earlier and came back to clean up and reload those. Everything looked great. Cleaned out the vent hole and not a single dent remaining. I wasnt aware of the vent hole. So that must have been it.

Thanks,
James
 
Thanks everyone. I went out and shot another batch earlier and came back to clean up and reload those. Everything looked great. Cleaned out the vent hole and not a single dent remaining. I wasnt aware of the vent hole. So that must have been it.

Thanks,
James

I like it when people come back, let us know what worked, or didn't work, and say thanx. Good going.

Regarding KKG... many of us here are older and gruff as can be... please be patient. - bb
 

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