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To reiterate, when somebody pointedly ignores "No Trespassing" and "Residents Only" signs and BREAKS DOWN YOUR DAMN GATE, that's kinda Prima facie evidence of hostile intent right there.
 
@EHJ I haven't responded to your question because it is a red herring. This is a case of a group of people being judged by the actions of others. This protest wasn't a riot; these people did not attack anyone. Showing me a video of some other incident somewhere else with other people is useless except to show your willingness to conflate them.

Where I come from, you're innocent until proven otherwise and you prepare for the worst but give people the opportunity to be their best. Had I been in their shoes, I probably would have checked to see where they were heading and gone back to work. If I actually felt threatened, you can be sure that I'd make a show of force. You can also be sure that I would not be pointing a gun at anyone until I'm ready to shoot. And that, to me, is a critical difference.

Honestly, I'm tired of this topic and will be ignoring all future posts coming from this one. You're not convincing me that this couple acted logically and responsibly and I'm not convincing you that the majority of people are not the rioters that you've seen on the news 24/7 or that the couple's actions were over a line.

Now, I've been coding all night to make up hours. I think I'll get some sleep. Cheers,
You assumed all that from a 30 second video.
Did you watch the CNN interview and the man's actual word's explaining what he experienced first hand?
His perspective?
His, "Justifiable Fearfulness"?

And the question was no red herring - it was a barometer of your experience v. reaction. You stated numerous times, "if it were me, I would have done this or that..." I'm just reminding you those statements are irrelevant in judging these people like you have.

Peace.
 
Just getting their "ducks in a row"?
If something walks like, flocks like, looks like, sounds like a duck.....
.... It's probably gonna be treated like a duck.


( hint for the dense...I know that they're not actually ducks....it's a simile... metaphorical )
 
Last Edited:
Uh, yea, I don't think you've grasped my point at all.

You're looking at this protest and declaring it a dangerous riot before deducing any opinion on the matter...at least, that's how it comes across.

Leading up to the event, there were George Floyd protests all over the country and world (List of George Floyd protests in the United States - Wikipedia) - the vast majority were peaceful demonstrations. Conflating every protest with a riot is useless. If you want to say that all protests have the potential to become riots, then that's of course true. However, responding to a protest as if it is a riot is an overreactive response. Responding to a riot as if it were a riot is right on the money.

So, the question is, was this a violent riot? That is demonstrably false, at the time that the McCloskey's confronted them and potentially false even now (I'm getting to the gate). The protestors were guilty of trespassing on private property. That is not enough to provide a reasonable person evidence that their life is in grave and immediate danger (many of their own neighbors are denouncing their actions...something that wouldn't make sense if other neighbors felt their lives threatened: 38 neighbors pin open letter denouncing the McCloskeys for waving guns at protesters). There's evidence of a destroyed gate that was taken the day after the protest. There's video of protestors walking in through an open gate at the time of the protest. So, did they destroy it on exit or was its destruction a separate event that is now entangled with this? There's reason to believe the protestors destroyed it, but no actual proof.

The protestors had an objective of getting to the Mayor's house. When you look at the map of its location relative to the gate entry, the protest would have had to walk by the McCloskey's house. They said that they were threatened, which is why they went to get weapons. There is no evidence that they went outside, were threatened, went back inside to get weapons, and then came back out. It is possible. It's also possible that they exited the house with weapons, at which time threats were made. It's also possible that they exited the house with weapons and are lying about the threats.

Here's a video of the wife leaving her front door area to get closer to the protestors on the sidewalk: ... To answer your question: No, she does not look scared at all. She comes across as entitled, as if to say how dare you protest in my neighborhood. I don't get the impression that she is actually scared for her life, as if any one of those people could kill her at a moment's notice. The fact that she left her front door space and husband in order to get closer to protestors is a sign of aggression or antagonization, not defense.

I think this couple was imbibing heavily on main stream news hysteria and completely overreacted to the situation - escalating it and putting themselves and the protestors in danger and I'm glad that no-one was hurt.

The protestors were heading for the Mayor's house and there's little reason to believe that they would have stopped at the McCloskey's at all had the couple not confronted them. If the couple really did fear for their lives and wanted to make a show of force, then that would be accomplished by standing outside with weapons ready - but not pointing them at anyone.

You can piss and moan about "tactics" and "lack of training" but this is a key point not to be brushed aside. Aiming a gun at someone is a threat of deadly force. The wife could have accidentally killed someone easily. Did any person whom she aimed the weapon give her a reason to do so? I didn't see anything that would qualify for that level of response.

So, should they have stayed inside? In hindsight, that decision would have produced the least negative consequences. Of the options to go outside, showing a defense would have been the best. It's also not what they did. They went on the offense when there was no justifiable reason to do so.

Regarding sword man...no, the death of Floyd does not justify his beating. Of course it doesn't. Why would you even bring up such a flimsy straw man except to paint anyone who doesn't share your opinion as morally corrupt?

Wow... not to be insulting (honestly), but I can sum up your (veritable) essay with one word.



Vapid
 
@EHJ I haven't responded to your question because it is a red herring. This is a case of a group of people being judged by the actions of others. This protest wasn't a riot; these people did not attack anyone. Showing me a video of some other incident somewhere else with other people is useless except to show your willingness to conflate them.

Where I come from, you're innocent until proven otherwise and you prepare for the worst but give people the opportunity to be their best. Had I been in their shoes, I probably would have checked to see where they were heading and gone back to work. If I actually felt threatened, you can be sure that I'd make a show of force. You can also be sure that I would not be pointing a gun at anyone until I'm ready to shoot. And that, to me, is a critical difference.

Honestly, I'm tired of this topic and will be ignoring all future posts coming from this one. You're not convincing me that this couple acted logically and responsibly and I'm not convincing you that the majority of people are not the rioters that you've seen on the news 24/7 or that the couple's actions were over a line.

Now, I've been coding all night to make up hours. I think I'll get some sleep. Cheers,


No, wait, don't leave..... :rolleyes:
 
These ducks have been around for some time... ChqKCljW0AAbu9n.jpg
 
You have a Right to Peaceably Protest on Public Property. I have a Right to protect my Private property...Conflating the two is misguided.
 
Fredo got schooled... Got his own words fed right back at him... I absolutely love it!!! God Bless the McClousky's!!!

Fredo couldn't win an argument with a 2yr old, much less lawyers. Without his big bro he's less than a real man.


At this point they've had to hire outside counsel and board up their business. That's not nothing as the man said.

Uhhhh, they're rich. Filthy rich. Live in a Pallazo. Made it off the backs of the people of color in St. Louis... They can afford a lark.


To reiterate, when somebody pointedly ignores "No Trespassing" and "Residents Only" signs and BREAKS DOWN YOUR DAMN GATE, that's kinda Prima facie evidence of hostile intent right there.

We'd have to be very asleep to not see the trend of these "protests" and be fearful when the mob breaks down the gate. If we're going to play "if it were me", not sure what my response would be, I'd be making that decision on the spot and hope to make a logical decision based on threat assessment. That said, I very much like the Couer D;Alene type of action, group safety in response to a group threat. Going forward, the McCloskey's are gonna need it.
 
We'd have to be very asleep to not see the trend of these "protests" and be fearful when the mob breaks down the gate. If we're going to play "if it were me", not sure what my response would be, I'd be making that decision on the spot and hope to make a logical decision based on threat assessment. That said, I very much like the Couer D;Alene type of action, group safety in response to a group threat. Going forward, the McCloskey's are gonna need it.
Yeah, if I lived in a gated community after an event like this I'd definitely be talking to friendly neighbors about setting up our own "Modern Minuteman" program. Even maybe distribute smoke cans and flares and put the word out that "if you see smoke or flare, call for help and come running with your Go Gear"...
 
Yeah, if I lived in a gated community after an event like this I'd definitely be talking to friendly neighbors about setting up our own "Modern Minuteman" program. Even maybe distribute smoke cans and flares and put the word out that "if you see smoke or flare, call for help and come running with your Go Gear"...

Pre-positioned Claymores would be good too... ;)
 
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