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County Messin' with a gun shop/buyers

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by mjbskwim, Aug 23, 2011.

  1. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    OK...just a scenario here (names and places withheld to protect the innocent)

    So a county Sheriff can't do any more than the state laws say when doing a backround check ,no? (in washington,please)

    Say you are the only gun dealer around,and the county makes all checks without a CHL go though DSHS for a mental backround check.

    Knowing this is illegal,but it is only effecting YOUR SALES,how would you handle it?
    I mean if you were in the pugetropolis,you would have 13280 other dealers to have your back,fight this with you
     
  2. R-Rizzo

    R-Rizzo NW Oregon Member

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    How is this enforced? I'm just curious... Since i'm from "South of the Border" I have no idea how Washington's Laws work.. But I"m just wondering where they come up in the process.
     
  3. One-Eyed Ross

    One-Eyed Ross Winlock, WA Well-Known Member

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    Who is doing the check? If it is the sheriff, he's breaking the law. If you are supposed to do it, you can't without breaking the law.

    Patients have rights. Lots of rights. Any health care giver that provides private health information to the sheriff without a warrant is going to jail....
     
  4. nubus

    nubus Guest

    This seems VERY odd to me. If this is actually occurring you should contact the NRA-ILA immediately.
     
  5. jdub75

    jdub75 PNW Well-Known Member

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    I would also call your counties DA's office to make sure they are aware the Sherrif is doing this. Possibly illegal; maybe unconstitutional?
     
  6. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    Yes Yes yes and yes.
    But how does one go from having cops as customers to having the department heads pissed at him?
    Again,if something is started it is obviously YOU who started it,you're the only player around.

    And most regular gun buyers,that I know,have carry permits,so it doesn't effect them.So only random buyers and the ONE shop owner are effected.

    Pisses me off.
    How does a guy help this out without screwing a shop owner?
    PM me for more details if you want.Won't put them here
     
  7. deadeye

    deadeye Albany,OR. Moderator Staff Member

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    I would report it now and get the county squared away before they try more similar illegal activities. If they think they can get away with this what will be next.
     
  8. livewire98801

    livewire98801 Seattle, WA Member

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    Have you tried pointing it out to the Sheriff himself in a casual manner? From what you're describing, it sounds like your hypothetical shop owner might know the hypothetical sheriff personally, just ask the guy over a cuppa.

    Agree with One-Eyed Ross as well here. If anyone's releasing patient data to them (even if it's "we've never heard of them") without a court order, they're violating HIPAA with a vengeance.

    Also, it might be worth a call to the County legal department. Seems like if you take care of this locally, at least at first, you might not tick off the Good 'ol Boy's club that treats you so well.

    Hypothetically.
     
  9. PhysicsGuy

    PhysicsGuy Corvallis, OR Resident Science Nut

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    Whoever the owner is, should talk to their lawyer (or find one who knows the topic), and if it something that they shouldnt legally be providing to the sheriff, they should simply tell the sheriff no, and that it is not legal (with showing the proof). This should be done in a non hostile manner by simply stating why it is not legal, and how it violates the customers rights.
     
  10. donMiguel

    donMiguel SouthKingWA Active Member

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    OK, help the slow kid. I am unaware how the sheriff gets involved or becomes aware in the state of Wa... You fill out your 4473, and the FFL calls NICCS, and if no issues, the deal is done, no coordination or notification of local LEO. No?

    Exceptions including personal ownership of suppressor, rather than trust ownership, where chief LEO sign-off is required?

    We do not yet have a national mental health db, and the LEO has no legal access to mental health records, outside of some court orders, and many of those records are sealed as well.
     
    mjbskwim and (deleted member) like this.
  11. TCOV

    TCOV OLYMPIC PENINSULA Active Member

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    Background checks are done through the federal system and local leo is only notified after the sale of a handgun and he is to bump it up to the state level as I understand it. No local leo involvement in a longarm purchase. I have sent you a PM asking further details. I do have a ccp and my dealer says he notifies local leo after the sale of a handgun I believe by mail. The situation you describe is not clear. Are you talking about a state other than WA?
    Sorry I didn't see Washington in the original post. Now it really doesn't make sense.
     
  12. PhysicsGuy

    PhysicsGuy Corvallis, OR Resident Science Nut

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    I believe the OP is stating that the sheriff has asked the gun shop to make all background checks (who dont have a CHL) go through a mental check at DSHS (as well as the standard NICS check)
     
    mjbskwim and (deleted member) like this.
  13. deen_ad

    deen_ad Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    Sheriff can't require it and DSHS info is private. If the Sheriff is getting the info that's illegal, if the shop owner is getting it that's also illegal!
     
  14. One-Eyed Ross

    One-Eyed Ross Winlock, WA Well-Known Member

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    Which ever way it goes, there are serious consequences for violating patient privacy. SERIOUS consequences. Having worked for health care agencies before, in a previous lifetime, I can tell you that the punishment for the provider of the information can be quite severe (financially and criminally).

    Additionally, the State of Washington is the sole regulator of firearms laws in the state of Washington. Any "extra" things that the Sheriff is asking for outside of State law are not enforceable, at least to my understanding of "pre-emption"....
     
  15. livewire98801

    livewire98801 Seattle, WA Member

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    As much as I want this to be right, doesn't preemption only cover carry and possession?
     
  16. TCOV

    TCOV OLYMPIC PENINSULA Active Member

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    Well the gunshop ffl would have no authority to do that and DSHS would probably refuse their request. If the sheriff is making the request from DSHS because of a handgun purchase he is probably outside his authority unless there has been a change in the regulations from the legislature and I have not heard of one, doesn't mean there wasn't a change but there are some pretty good watchdogs regarding gun control and no one brought it up. mjbskwim needs to clarify if he is talking about Washington State or onother state. There is not enough information here to make a judgement.
    Sorry I didn't see Washington in the op unless there has been an edit.
     
  17. deen_ad

    deen_ad Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    Here's the law:
    And RCW 9.41.300:
     
  18. livewire98801

    livewire98801 Seattle, WA Member

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    Come on guys, have I got to do all the work?
    :huh::laugh:

     
  19. deen_ad

    deen_ad Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    OP's original post states "(in washington,please)"
    So I would assume he means in Washington State.
     
  20. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    This is in Washington.Again I'm asking this and not the shop owner,so don't really want to put too many details out.

    Yeah I got mad instead of asking him how the FU...heck the county got involved anyway.
    So a guy walks in and asks if he's been OKed yet.(no carry permit)
    "no and the sheriff's office isn't open today,so come back Tuesday"
    The kid leaves and shop owner says the local sheriff sends the names out for some mental eval at DSHS
    WHAT? THAT"S ILLEGAL I say
    He says he don't know how to handle it without pissing them off and further screwing his business

    I really hope nobody from the county is reading this,as I just wanted to know how a guy can challenge this without loosing his license and livelihood.
    Kind of like he needs a buyer to go through this and start the process,challenging the county.
    Yeah I'm still wondering how the county got their hands in it.

    do Miguel,as far as I know you are correct.I have never heard of such a thing anywhere else