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Cougar Hunting With Dogs: Oregonian editorial

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by Spitpatch, Apr 17, 2013.

  1. Spitpatch

    Spitpatch Forest Grove, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Yesterday, the 16th, the Oregonian ran a headline editorial regarding a recent effort in the legislature to modify the hound hunting ban, which would allow individual counties to make that decision for themselves (born of the ever-increasing dichotomy between the Willamette Valley political bent, and that of more rural regions in the state).

    Here is my rebuttal: I went long (over the 150 word limit for letters to the editor, but also posted it at The Stump /Oregon live).


    The Oregonian comes down on the correct side of the Cougar hunting issue (“Cougar Hunting With Dogs”, April 16th), supporting allowance of individual counties to decide. But in so doing, the Oregonian also perpetuates misunderstandings and misinformation about Cougar (and Bear) hunting with hounds. Perhaps inadvertently, in the perpetuation of such, the Oregonian exposes the very root of the current problem.

    In references contained in the editorial, the Oregonian would have the average reader (of probably equal experience hunting with hounds as that held by the editorial staff) believe that the activity of pursuit of Cougars with dogs is easy, of little effort, and not a “ hard-earned technique” (such as hunting deer or elk). This belief is understandable from someone with absolutely no experience. However, not only is it completely false, to perpetuate in literature ANY belief founded on lack of experience as truth is shoddy journalism. Cougars and Bears, by their very nature and behavior and habits cannot be successfully managed using the same “techniques” as employed toward the ungulates. Upon treeing of a Cougar or Bear, hound hunters regularly employ a process of gender and age determination, and VERY often choose not to kill (this perpetuates the species, and perpetuates the activity).

    In truth, the pursuit of Cougars (and Bears) with hounds is one of the MOST arduous outdoor activities in which one could choose to engage. Anyone with even one hunt under their belt would be a convert to this truth. It is not a sport for the old, infirm, or even slightly out of shape. Chasing a pack of dogs through the timber and canyons with no thought to trails or roads or convenient access is a sport for young and strong individuals of nearly limitless physical endurance. As a hunter who has been dropped without a guide 100 miles above the Arctic Circle in pursuit of Sheep, and dropped without a guide in the vast expanses of the Mulchatna tundra for Caribou, and having packed in on horseback 24 miles into the Bob Marshall Wilderness of Montana for Elk, I can confidently say that hound hunting equals or surpasses all those physical challenges.

    And it is in this mistaken belief of ease marketed by the Oregonian: “…yee-haw hunting by lazy guys with dogs,…” that we find the very source of our current problems with Cougars and Bears as they interact with our ever-increasing encroachment on their habitat coupled with their ever-decreasing fear of Man and places he inhabits. Cougars and Bears without fear of Man very soon become problem Cougars and Bears, requiring that they be dispatched and disposed of in a very ignoble fashion little better than our swatting of a fly on the kitchen window. Witness California’s experience: with a total ban on Cougar hunting, the state (at taxpayer expense, I might add) kills more Cougars per year now than were killed by hunters BEFORE the ban (and the hunters, in license fees, PAID the state!). Although I am a strong supporter of the initiative process in this state, the ban on hound hunting is a prime example of how a misinformed and emotional populace can make a decision that is not only wrong for the state, but wrong for magnificent animals deserving more from us.

    Emotional conclusions drawn from little or no experience should play no part in wildlife policy. Perpetuating those emotional conclusions in print is a public disservice. Wildlife management should be left to the scientists that are best at it. To do any less is to disrespect not only the individual species of Cougars and Bears, but the valuable resource of all our wildlife, nearly unmatched in the world.
     
  2. Redcap

    Redcap Lewis County, WA Well-Known Member

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    Cougar hunting is best accomplished in the more classy bars.
     
    JohnnyD, tacticalgunner, nwo and 12 others like this.
  3. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Excellent letter. To bad the majority of the readers of the Oregonian do not have the root intelligence or experience to recognize it as such.

    I commend your efforts and put my vote fully behind the return to traditional cougar and bear hunting.
     
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  4. BAMCIS

    BAMCIS Eugene Well-Known Member

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    Excellent read. Kudos for trying to educate the low information voter.

    I tried also when this ill-conceived law was up for a vote in the first place. As soon as the do-gooders ran those ads with the cute little kittens and bear cubs I knew it was hopeless. All reason was lost and the idiots in the valley were going to emotionally cast their ballots.
     
    rocky3 and (deleted member) like this.
  5. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    OK I understand that we need to lower the cougar population,but I just don't get the atraction of sending 5 animals after 1 and then shooting it out of a tree.
    And I could care less how far you have to run after the dogs.Maybe if the dogs were better you wouldn't have to?
    Like some a$$hat on another board saying he killed a cougar,a superior killing machine than a dog one on one,for killing his older dog,that was chasing a superior killing machine in said machine's own territory.
    Ha then said some BS about the dogs being like his children,as my dog is

    So WTF did you send your beloved child after an animal that can easily kill it?
    Hmmm.

    I don't get the draw and I like watching dogs hunt.Just doesn't seem much like a hunt ,just a chase and easy kill.
    I'm all for sending dogs after problem animals that come into neighborhoods Not much for the rest of it.
    Seems like sanctioned animal fighting to me

    Go for it,I have the flame suit on.
     
  6. nwo

    nwo Southern Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I love Cougars.
     
  7. One-Eyed Ross

    One-Eyed Ross Winlock, WA Well-Known Member

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    One of the wonderful things about our society is that we are allowed differing opinions.

    Personally, I've never hunted with hounds, but I've never been a fighter pilot, boxed in the ring, been a fan of professional wrestling, had any body part other than my ear pierced or been hang gliding. Other people find those activities pleasurable. Great country, this, we allow (or at least, did allow) freedom.

    Should hound hunting be illegal? Probably not, since it wasn't a problem, except in the minds of elite snobs (in my opinion, anyways). I don't like the idea that a bunch of people with no experience hunting (i.e. city folks) making decisions about what kind of method is the best.

    Hunters can argue among themselves, and always will, about what the "best" method is...but at least they have a common point of reference.
     
  8. Redcap

    Redcap Lewis County, WA Well-Known Member

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    I'm going hunting this weekend.
     
  9. kenboy

    kenboy salem, oregon GOD BLESS AMERICA Bronze Supporter

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    As it says on the back of my Quad, " I love cougars......Bar-B-Qued"
     
  10. ZigZagZeke

    ZigZagZeke Eugene Silver Supporter Silver Supporter 2015 Volunteer

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    Some people will just never understand...

    leo4.jpg
    leo5.jpg
    leo8.jpg
     
  11. Provincial

    Provincial Near Salem, OR Well-Known Member

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    That looks like a 2A supporter with a pack of progressive Democrats.
     
  12. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    Yeah, coming after more of his gross pay!
     
  13. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    Yep 5-1
    1-1 and the dog is in the tree with the cougar,becoming lunch.

    Cougar hunting is very hard work if you call them (from a local cougar hunter). I would suppose this is why dogs are so popular. Not as much work finding them.And I suppose why the calling method isn't as popular.
    Who wants to sit around and wait when the dogs can do all the work?
    No sense in actually hunting.
     
  14. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    It's SIX to one... Thank you very much!


    Just like a cougar... bringing ten claws to a pack-fight! ;)
     
  15. pokerace

    pokerace Newberg Well-Known Member

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    I think I would like a DISLIKE button!!
     
    Blackcobra and (deleted member) like this.
  16. ZigZagZeke

    ZigZagZeke Eugene Silver Supporter Silver Supporter 2015 Volunteer

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    You have to cover a lot of ground to find a lion track to put the dogs on.

    Notice where they are and what the conditions are? It's snowing. They're miles from a road of any kind. And somebody had to follow the dogs for miles on foot, at a non-leisurely pace, and climb that bluff to take that picture.

    It's that versus park the truck, walk 200 yards, and sit on your butt for an hour calling. No comparison. I've done both, unlike some people. I'm actually getting too old to follow the hounds anymore, but I'll be calling varmints when I'm 103.

    And by the way, you're perfectly free to repeat the lies the anti's put out about hound hunting, but don't come crying to me when they come after your favorite hunting method. I'd say, after hounds have been outlawed everywhere the next target will be using dogs for retrieving waterfowl. They're already talking about retrieving dogs being "forced" to work "all day long in frigid water, after being starved in a crate in the back of a truck for days."
     
  17. salmonriverjohn

    salmonriverjohn N.W Oregon coast, Gods country Well-Known Member

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    Well written Spitpatch. And to those that have never been behind a few dogs way the hell back in some of the steepest and deepest country, in pursuit of the apex predator that pound for pound is the strongest of all the big cats, you don't know what your missing.

    This is a tool that has been wrested from the ODFW as a control method. This is also another method of keeping cats a little edgier about being in close proximity to humans, a cat that has been ran learns to avoid encounters.

    It's an emotional issue that was voted on as such, and not logically. The population of Cougar in the state of Oregon has doubled since the ban on hunting with dogs was voted in by those that were inundated by commercials that tore at the heart strings and were provided by the humane society.

    An adult Cougar kills around one deer a week, more for mature Toms. With a Conservative estimation by ODFW of a population of around 6k Cougar in the state, it doesn't take long to do the math and realize that with the estimated Mule deer population @ 216,154, and a Blacktail population that is far less and in rapid cascade, to see that due to just the depredation of the Cougar they are in big trouble. And if anyone thinks that it stops at Deer sized targets, think again. They will take anything (including children) from Elk to field mice.

    I for one am all for hound hunting, (Oh and I have no issue with stump sitting, predator calling folks either as I'm one of them too) and I would vote to reinstate it in a heart beat.
     
  18. ZigZagZeke

    ZigZagZeke Eugene Silver Supporter Silver Supporter 2015 Volunteer

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    And if I remember correctly the mule deer population was around 400,000 at the time of the hound hunting ban. A few years ago it was in the 300,000 range, so it is continuing to decline.

    As for other types of dog assisted hunting, bird hunters, you are next:

    My turn: HSUS sponsors bill to stop use of dogs for hunting bears, bobcats Mountain Democrat
     
  19. Kevatc

    Kevatc Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I don't hunt at all but I must say that this was one very well written letter and one you should be proud of.
     
  20. salmonriverjohn

    salmonriverjohn N.W Oregon coast, Gods country Well-Known Member

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    Well here's one way to look at it, if its allowed to be voted on county by county to make their own choices, Multnomah, Linn, Marion, Washington and Benton counties are going to see a big influx of Cougar. When they vacate an area due to being ran by dogs in one area and not in others it wont take long for these counties to be inundated, just take a look at California and their problems since they banned Cougar hunting.