Coronavirus 2019 (COVID-19) Official Thread

[Hueco]

Well I would argue that one pretty staunchly but won't waste everyone's time here. And this viewpoint of mine comes not in the slightest bit from superstition or from traditional Chinese medicine. If anything I would call it western medicine techniques, in China. To be very brief:

I'm glad you didn't waste the keystrokes, that was merely an attempt at humor.

I'm right there with you on the not-buying-the-bat-soup-explanation bandwagon.

 

[Hueco]

Probable scenario for virus's escape in China;
- starvation wage janitor cleaning cages in animal testing facility
- told to incinerate dead lab rats/cats/bunnies/bats
- decides to instead supplement family income and sell them at a local market
- people buy them for Bat Tacos and Bunny Burritos
- hence..."CORONA Virus"

Your comment reminded me of this chinese-mexican hybrid: Chino Bandido

The jerk fried rice is pretty tasty. Doesn't include bat.

 

[4Freedom]

This is total BS. Chloroquine is taken weekly for malaria prophylaxis not daily. Chloroquine resistance is common only in Plasmodium falciparum, and there is a lot of resistant P. falciparum in Africa, in which case other drugs should be prescribed, but any semi-competent physician should know this. Larium has proven to have far more harmful side effects than chloroquine.

Chloroquine is highly effective for both the prevention and treatment of Plasmodium vivax, and very safe when taken as directed.

Never heard of anyone taking Chloroquine to prevent malaria in endemic zones like Africa and India (two regions with high amounts of deadliest forms of malaria) and heard it had pretty bad side effects for long term use... Didn't mean to spew BS, but after being in Africa half a year and being bitten by my share of P. falciparum infected mosquitoes , I have yet to hear of any doctors prescribing chloroquine as a prophylactic.

I am only reciting what I heard from other travelers in the malarial zone who were asking about using chloroquine as a prophylactic.

I was always told that Chloroquine is a last resort drug in high dosages and is one of the more effective treatments to treat acute malaria infections, but has not been used as a preventative in a long time.

BTW, share your resources though of the effectiveness of Chloroquine as prophylactic malaria treatment and how it has less severe side effects than Malarone, Doxycyline and Larium (definitely pretty nasty stuff) .. All , which have bad side effects, except Malarone which is more tolerated and is , as of when I traveled there 10 years ago, the prophylactic of choice. Why don't they use chloroquine as a prophylactic anymore, if it is so effective and lacks side effects?

High-Dose Chloroquine for Uncomplicated Plasmodium falciparum Malaria Is Well Tolerated and Causes Similar QT Interval Prolongation as Standard-Dose Chloroquine in Children | Antimicrobial Agents and Chemotherapy

Higher chloroquine doses can effectively treat up to 93 to 96% of malaria infections caused by Plasmodium falciparum carrying the resistance-conferring chloroquine resistance transporter (pfcrt) 76T allele. The tolerability of 50 (double the standard dose)...

aac.asm.org

After doing some research, it appears malaria is pretty resistant to prophylactic dosages of Chloroquine and it is toxic in higher dosages , which is why prophlyactics have been switched to other drugs in most regions of the world.

Malaria Prevention in Travelers

The prevention of malaria in travelers is becoming a more challenging clinical and public health problem because of the global development of drug-resistant Plasmodium strains of malaria and the increasing popularity of travel to exotic locales. Travelers can reduce their risk of acquiring...

www.aafp.org

For many years, chloroquine was the standard prophylactic agent against malaria, as well as a convenient treatment for acute attacks of the disease. Chloroquine is inexpensive, fast acting and fairly nontoxic at usual dosages. Furthermore, it can be used safely in pregnant women and women who are breast-feeding.

Because of the emergence of drug-resistant P. falciparum strains, however, chloroquine has become ineffective in most parts of the world. With a few exceptions, chloroquine is now used as malaria prophylaxis only in the Middle East, Central America and Hispaniola (the island nations of Haiti and the Dominican Republic). The antimalarial dosage for a traveler to these areas is one 500-mg tablet (300-mg base) per week beginning one week before departure, one 500-mg tablet per week during exposure and one tablet per week for four weeks after the traveler returns home.2

Side effects of chloroquine include mild nausea, blurred vision, headache and psoriasis flare-ups. In addition, itching may occur in dark-skinned (black) persons. In dosages higher than 500 mg per week, chloroquine has been associated with retinal degenerative disorders and therefore probably should not be used in persons with such disorders. In the typical prophylactic dosage, however, the drug is not harmful to the retina. Very rare reactions to chloroquine include agranulocytosis, photosensitivity and neuropsychiatric effects.5

Chloroquine's side effects are not to be taken lightly..

Side effects include blurred vision, nausea, vomiting, abdominal cramps, headache, diarrhea, swelling legs/ankles, shortness of breath, pale lips/nails/skin, muscle weakness, easy bruising/bleeding, hearing and mental problems.[15][16]

• Unwanted/uncontrolled movements (including tongue and face twitching) [15]
• Deafness or tinnitus.[15]
• Nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, abdominal cramps[16]
• Headache.[15]
• Mental/mood changes (such as confusion, personality changes, unusual thoughts/behavior, depression, feeling being watched, hallucinating)[15][16]
• Signs of serious infection (such as high fever, severe chills, persistent sore throat)[15]
• Skin itchiness, skin color changes, hair loss, and skin rashes.[16][17]
  • Chloroquine-induced itching is very common among black Africans (70%), but much less common in other races. It increases with age, and is so severe as to stop compliance with drug therapy. It is increased during malaria fever; its severity is correlated to the malaria parasite load in blood. Some evidence indicates it has a genetic basis and is related to chloroquine action with opiate receptors centrally or peripherally.[18]
• Unpleasant metallic taste
  • This could be avoided by "taste-masked and controlled release" formulations such as multiple emulsions.[19]
• Chloroquine retinopathy
• Electrocardiographic changes[20]
  • This manifests itself as either conduction disturbances (bundle-branch block, atrioventricular block) or Cardiomyopathy – often with hypertrophy, restrictive physiology, and congestive heart failure. The changes may be irreversible. Only two cases have been reported requiring heart transplantation, suggesting this particular risk is very low. Electron microscopy of cardiac biopsies show pathognomonic cytoplasmic inclusion bodies.
• Pancytopenia, aplastic anemia, reversible agranulocytosis, low blood platelets, neutropenia.[21]

BTW, I am not claiming that the dosages needed to treat COVID-19 would be anywhere near toxic levels. I was just explaining that chloroquine is used primarily in acute malarial infections in high dosages which can be tolerated for the short-term , but not as a prophylaxis. At least not anymore with the resistance of malaria to the drug.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Anyone have further info on that quercetin mentioned about 75-100 pages ago or whatever? I recall it was being tested in China and previously worked on SARS and Ebola if I remember right. Can't remember if it was an immune booster like vitamin c or a medicine or what.

 

[Cavedweller]

Never heard of anyone taking Chloroquine to prevent malaria and heard it had pretty bad side effects for long term use... Didn't mean to spew BS, but after being in Africa half a year and being bitten by my share of P. falciparum infected mosquitoes , I have yet to hear of any doctors prescribing chloroquine as a prophylactic.

I am only reciting what I heard from other travelers in the malarial zone who were asking about using chloroquine as a prophylactic.

I was always told that Chloroquine is a last resort drug in high dosages and is one of the more effective treatments to treat acute malaria infections, but has not been used as a preventative in a long time.

BTW, share your resources though of the effectiveness of Chloroquine as prophylactic malaria treatment and how it has less severe side effects than Malarone, Doxycyline and Larium (definitely pretty nasty stuff) .. All , which have bad side effects, except Malarone which is more tolerated and is , as of when I traveled there 10 years ago, the prophylactic of choice. Why don't they use chloroquine as a prophylactic anymore, if it is so effective and lacks side effects?

High-Dose Chloroquine for Uncomplicated Plasmodium falciparum Malaria Is Well Tolerated and Causes Similar QT Interval Prolongation as Standard-Dose Chloroquine in Children | Antimicrobial Agents and Chemotherapy

Higher chloroquine doses can effectively treat up to 93 to 96% of malaria infections caused by Plasmodium falciparum carrying the resistance-conferring chloroquine resistance transporter (pfcrt) 76T allele. The tolerability of 50 (double the standard dose)...

aac.asm.org

After doing some research, it appears malaria is pretty resistant to prophylactic dosages of Chloroquine and it is toxic in higher dosages , which is why prophlyactics have been switched to other drugs in most regions of the world.

Malaria Prevention in Travelers

The prevention of malaria in travelers is becoming a more challenging clinical and public health problem because of the global development of drug-resistant Plasmodium strains of malaria and the increasing popularity of travel to exotic locales. Travelers can reduce their risk of acquiring...

www.aafp.org

Chloroquine's side effects are not to be taken lightly..




BTW, I am not claiming that the dosages needed to treat COVID-19 would be anywhere near toxic levels. I was just explaining that chloroquine is used primarily in acute malarial infections in high dosages which can be tolerated for the short-term , but not as a prophylaxis. At least not anymore with the resistance of malaria to the drug.

It depends where you are going. If chloroquine resistant P. falciparum is known to be a problem, then one would not prescribe chloroquine. But in areas where there is not resistant P. falciparum, it is still a viable alternative.

CDC - Malaria - Travelers - Choosing a Drug to Prevent Malaria

Education and information regarding choosing a drug to prevent malaria, including a list of all available drugs and reasons for taking or not taking a certain drug.

www.cdc.gov

What are my resources? I was in the Navy Medical Service Corps for 15+ years. I spent 5+ years in SE Asian laboratories (Indonesia and the Philippines) conducting malaria research. I have had Plasmodium vivax myself twice. The treatment dosages of chloroquine are considerably higher than those used for prophylaxis, and each case I was better in 48 hours without adverse effects.

Where Plasmodium vivax is concerned, it is the drug of first resort, rather than last resort. I have worked in remote villages in both countries and have seen chloroquine effectively cure hundreds of patients in relatively short order. I have never seen a patient react adversely to chloroquine. Unfortunately, in endemic areas, reinfection is a constant problem.

 

[wp4]

Anyone have further info on that quercetin mentioned about 75-100 pages ago or whatever? I recall it was being tested in China and previously worked on SARS and Ebola if I remember right. Can't remember if it was an immune booster like vitamin c or a medicine or what.

Coronavirus 2019 (COVID-19) Official Thread

KB orders all K-12 schools in Oregon closed for 2 weeks. https://katu.com/news/local/gov-brown-orders-all-k-12-schools-to-close-statewide-for-two-weeks-due-to-coronavirus

www.northwestfirearms.com

Small group of discussion here.

And here:

Coronavirus 2019 (COVID-19) Official Thread

Feb 7 Sounds like pretty good advice now, doesn't it? Good advice now, good advice a year ago and good advice a year from now. Seems like basic stuff.

www.northwestfirearms.com

[PDF] Zinc ionophore activity of quercetin and epigallocatechin-gallate: from Hepa 1-6 cells to a liposome model. | Semantic Scholar

The capacity of QCT and epigallocatechin-gallate to rapidly increase labile zinc in mouse hepatocarcinoma Hepa 1-6 cells as well as, for the first time, in liposomes is demonstrated, demonstrating the ionophore action of Q CT, epig allocatechin -gallate, and CQ on lipid membrane systems. Labile...

www.semanticscholar.org

It's supposed to have similar benefits as hydroxychloroquine

 

[4Freedom]

It depends where you are going. If chloroquine resistant P. falciparum is known to be a problem, then one would not prescribe chloroquine. But in areas where there is not resistant P. falciparum, it is still a viable alternative.

CDC - Malaria - Travelers - Choosing a Drug to Prevent Malaria

Education and information regarding choosing a drug to prevent malaria, including a list of all available drugs and reasons for taking or not taking a certain drug.

www.cdc.gov

What are my resources? I was in the Navy Medical Service Corps for 15+ years. I spent 5+ years in SE Asian laboratories (Indonesia and the Philippines) conducting malaria research. I have had Plasmodium vivax myself twice. The treatment dosages of chloroquine are considerably higher than those used for prophylaxis, and each case I was better in 48 hours without adverse effects.

Where Plasmodium vivax is concerned, it is the drug of first resort, rather than last resort. I have worked in remote villages in both countries and have seen chloroquine effectively cure hundreds of patients in relatively short order. I have never seen a patient react adversely to chloroquine. Unfortunately, in endemic areas, reinfection is a constant problem.

Interesting.. Well, the only malarial endemic zones I traveled to were East and West Africa.. And, I know the only usage of chloroquine in that region was treating acute infections. I didn't realize that chloroquine had prophylactic usage in other parts of the world. Maybe, the reason for the bad side effects I was hearing about with chloroquine is because of the higher dosages needed in places like Sub-Saharan Africa where the disease is much more resistant. I've heard stories of people who have been pretty screwed up from chloroquine, but mostly as a life saving measure, which is completely different from a low dosage prophylactic measure.

I apologize for my ignorance there and didn't realize it still is an effective prophylactic in some parts of the world. I mostly am reciting my own experience and what I learned from doctors on my trips to Africa, where P. Falciparum is major problem and from what I have read in the past, up to 25% of Anapholes mosquitoes carries this type of malaria in these regions.

I wonder though if the bad side effects from drugs like Doxcycline, Larium and others could also be because they have increased dosage with resistance? Malarone I heard had some of the lesser side effects from other drugs and I took it for over 2 months in East Africa.. It is also an expensive drug, although maybe after 10 years it has become cheaper? It gave me very weird dreams , but that was about it. On my second trip to West Africa, which was much longer than my first to East Africa, I took Artemisinin , which is a natural substance, an herb that has been used as an anti-malarial for many years in China and actually now is being used in pharmaceuticals as a treatment for malaria infections. It was very effective and despite being bit by over dozens of mosquitoes in endemic West Africa, I did not come down with malaria. Whereas, several other people I met came down with malaria, some who were locals and other tourists/humanitarian workers who took their prescribed anti-malarials.

I was always told if I came down with malaria I would have to start on the Artemsinin-based combination therapy drugs first and if it didn't work they would have to pump me full of chloroquine. I was dreading that this could possibly happen to me due to a lot of bite exposure, but thankfully it didn't. After meeting the German guy, he told me he was lucky he didn't die from either the chloroquine or the malaria. He got very badly sick.


An interesting article:

Drug Touted as COVID-19 Treatment Has Troubling Side Effects, Experts Say

An ex-Army doctor said medications being considered to treat the coronavirus could cause brain damage and other problems.

www.military.com

This particular part of the article caught my eye

The drugs are not recommended for patients who are prone to arrhythmia or taking other medications that can cause irregular heart beats or those who are immuno-suppressed or have kidney conditions.

Once again, I am not saying the drug would be dangerous or ineffective for treating Covid-19, but still need to do a lot more of my own research to see how effective it is and what long term effects it could have on more elderly or immune-compromised population who would be the people who probably would be treated with this drug for life saving measures.

 

[Cavedweller]

After meeting the German guy, he told me he was lucky he didn't die from either the chloroquine or the malaria. He got very badly sick.

There are severe forms of faciparum malaria which are unique to Africa. Read up on blackwater fever and cerebral malaria. Both are commonly fatal. If he had one of these complications, he would have been very lucky to have survived. Malaria makes you feel pretty crappy no matter what. I don't think anyone could attribute what they were feeling to the drug rather than the disease. How would you make that differentiation?

 

[4Freedom]

There are severe forms of faciparum malaria which are unique to Africa. Read up on blackwater fever and cerebral malaria. Both are commonly fatal. If he had one of these complications, he would have been very lucky to have survived. Malaria makes you feel pretty crappy no matter what. I don't think anyone could attribute what they were feeling to the drug rather than the disease. How would you make that differentiation?

I think he was stating that he came close to having to be administered a very dangerous amount of chloroquine to fight off the disease rather than dealing with the side effects of the drug, itself. Although, with the amount of the drug he was administered I would assume he probably would have to deal with some side effects with it.

Cerebral malaria was pretty common in Ghana, where I was. I had a friend I made there and his sister died of it.. In fact, I think the mortality rate from cerebral malaria is much higher than many people know because many Africans do not go to hospitals or get proper diagnoses for their conditions. I met several people who reported family members from dying after having severe head pain. I asked what was it that killed them and they said it was severe head pain that caused the death. Obviously, nobody dies just from head pain. The pastor of the NGO I was working with literally lost his child from this bizarre "head pain death".


BTW, just did a little reading about Blackwater fever.. Some claim it is actually from the treatment with quinine based drugs rather than the malaria infection itself? Any input on that..

A Report of Four Cases of Blackwater Fever after Quinine Treatment at Zinder National Hospital, Niger Republic

<i>Background</i>. Blackwater fever (BWF) is a rare but serious complication of malaria that is a consequence of antimalarial treatment. Its prevalence seems to have increased. Its diagnosis is based on clinical symptoms and urine color. We report on 4 BWF cases admitted to the infectious...

www.hindawi.com

I am definitely not an expert on malaria.. I just did what I could to prevent getting it and did research on herbs and drugs I would have to use in the endemic region I was travelling.

 

[SpudBob]

Chloroquine's side effects are not to be taken lightly

I think id RATHER have Kung Flu!!!

 

[Reacher120]

Let's be honest, it's the Chinese superstitious "thought to work" medicine that got us in this mess.

This treatment, high dose intravenous Vit C, in patients developing or in sepsis. has been used for a year or so here in the United States. I will try and find the link from the Mayo Clinic, i think. File this away in your mind, Sepsis is a major killer in ICU patients. If you have a loved one develop Sepsis, you may need to know this. I will try and follow up with links.

 

[CountryGent]

Looks like another demographic may be hit disproportionately: LGBTQ community may be 'particularly vulnerable' to coronavirus pandemic. Here's why.

 

[Xaevian]

Those folks just can't catch a break.

 

[Cavedweller]

BTW, just did a little reading about Blackwater fever.. Some claim it is actually from the treatment with quinine based drugs rather than the malaria infection itself? Any input on that..

A Report of Four Cases of Blackwater Fever after Quinine Treatment at Zinder National Hospital, Niger Republic

<i>Background</i>. Blackwater fever (BWF) is a rare but serious complication of malaria that is a consequence of antimalarial treatment. Its prevalence seems to have increased. Its diagnosis is based on clinical symptoms and urine color. We report on 4 BWF cases admitted to the infectious...

www.hindawi.com

So they seem to be saying these days. Was not part of my training, as I recall. I have no direct experience with it, so I will defer to others.

 

[awshoot]

Ibuprofen is OK -

WHO walks back warning about ibuprofen and coronavirus, ‘not aware’ of any negative effects - The Boston Globe

The World Health Organization on Wednesday walked back an earlier recommendation against taking Ibuprofen amid the coronavirus pandemic.

www.bostonglobe.com

I don't know what to think about anything WHO says: Abolish the World Health Organization | Spectator USA

 

[sobo]

I don't know what to think about anything WHO says

Well, we know one thing fer sure...

 

[CamoDeafie]

One of my left leaning friends had a rather dark suggestion; that apartments will become available, and housing prices will fall way down as more places get foreclosed, as people die off and elderly move into nursing/quarantine camps.. I reminded him that so far, the total mortality rate has not gotten over 1% of the reported cases

 

[Hueco]

This treatment, high dose intravenous Vit C, in patients developing or in sepsis. has been used for a year or so here in the United States. I will try and find the link from the Mayo Clinic, i think. File this away in your mind, Sepsis is a major killer in ICU patients. If you have a loved one develop Sepsis, you may need to know this. I will try and follow up with links.

The point of my post seems to have fluttered, like a bat in the wind, over two heads now.

 

[ma96782]

And in CHINA....... I'll just call it deflection.... But until there is an investigation.....

07:53 into the video......lawyer in CHINA is suing the USA and asking for an apology from Pres. Trump. Because the coronavirus is the fault of America. Well, for now, it's worth a laugh.

Aloha, Mark

 

[awshoot]

Atlanta hospitals overwhelmed by coronavirus patients

At all of Atlanta's four major hospitals, every ICU bed is taken.

www.cbsnews.com

At Atlanta's Grady Hospital, all 100 beds in the intensive care unit were full. Then COVID-19 hit. Viral patients are now quarantined wherever the hospital finds space.