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Cops should not use Glocks ...

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by RicInOR, May 10, 2015.

  1. RicInOR

    RicInOR Washington County Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Or, should they?

    Thought by: Bob Owens is the editor of BearingArms.com. He is an alumnus of Gunsite Academy, a rifle marksmanship instructor with Project Appleseed and the author of the short ebook "So You Want to Own a Gun."

    http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/206534/


    The TX officer stopped the shooting last week with a Glock.
     
  2. SCARed

    SCARed Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    Flawed BS argument, something I would expect to hear from the gun grabbers.
     
    hker71 likes this.
  3. willseeker

    willseeker N. Portland. Well-Known Member

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    I have noted that over the years there have been many instances of cops not subscribing to the basic elements when using lethal force. 1) Pointing a gun when not ready to destroy 2) Placing finger on the trigger when not ready to destroy 3) Shooting when threat is down or running away. Maybe it's the stress in the situation but after many hours of defensive training I have learned a few of these basic weapon rules and practice them daily. I'd hate to see what the courts would do to me if I shot someone that was not a threat.
     
  4. rick benjamin

    rick benjamin USA, Or, Damascus Secure the drama Silver Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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    Just Jim linked to the LA Times article

    I said it before, and I'll say it again
    That's the LA Times! A fishwrapper without peer south of the 45th Parallel!
    The photo solves "officer shooting anybody" issues
    Glock fakes.JPG
    Rubber Glocks, Bob:p
     
    willseeker likes this.
  5. Lange22250

    Lange22250 Milwaukie Active Member

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    Bob Owens sounds like a rather ignorant writer attempting to make a living working in the firearms industry,like the majority of the other writers in the industry. Recycling opinions from others is not a substitute for a variety training, experience and access to real data.

    Most cops who put their fingers on the trigger at the wrong time do it because a) their trainers or agency don't know any better (more common than you may think) or more likely b) fail to take their training seriously and only do the bare minimum to qualify then never practice a very perishable skill and that's aggravated by c) agencies that will not fire people for not meeting rigorous standards because it costs too much.

    As was noted LEO's have had ND's with every type of firearm ever issued. No design or mechanical safety will prevent an ND if the user is not proficient and conscientious.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2015
    waglockfan and pioneer461 like this.
  6. MountainBear

    MountainBear Sweet Home, OR Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I don't believe Glocks are the end all, be all of police firearms, but this article reeked of someone with an agenda.
     
    hker71 likes this.
  7. pioneer461

    pioneer461 Columbia County, Oregon Active Member

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    Either an agenda, or gross ignorance.
     
  8. Gunner3456

    Gunner3456 Salem Well-Known Member

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    This looks like an informercial blog. He ends up with links to two books which probably pay him for the click throughs.

    Now there's nothing wrong with capitalism and making money but this looks to be a write up made simply to sell books, Amazon, and Instavision. I'm not sure how much he actually believes what he's saying.
     
  9. Jacurso

    Jacurso Douglas Co. Active Member

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    I have shot nearly every brand of handgun in the world.....and I consider the Glock to be one of the best I have ever come across for police duty use. I've owned one since 1986 and it has never failed to perform, with any brand of ammo or reloads.
    As a civilian and police trainer for many years....#5 (b) above, is what I consider to be the major malfunction.
    Oh...btw....I was, and still am, a 1911 fan... before Glock showed up.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2015
  10. NSDQ

    NSDQ NW Portland, Oregon Active Member

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    I'm tired of listening to Jeff Cooper quotes. Jeff Cooper doesn't have to be the end all be all dogmatic scripture for the rest of my firearms training. Time moves on and techniques evolve over as new threats and training methods are decided upon.

    The .45 Is an awesome round. It's also shrouded in myth. Yes during the Korean War and Vietnam the .45 was much better than its 9mm counterparts. Yes Bob Owens the 1911 is a solid military pistol used by the armed forces. What is not mentioned in that dialogue is that the military cannot use modern hollowpoint ammunition as it is in violation of the Hague Convention of 1899 and has been ever since.

    Back in Coopers day .45 FMJ would always be superior to a 9mm FMJ. Hence why the military continues to use .45 and variants by elite units. Bigger bullet = bigger hole. But with the use of modern hollow-points that difference quickly evaporates and is why I think its much widely accepted that the 9mm hollow-point is becoming adopted. I also think veterans from those previous wars sang the .45's high praises and it became gun range lore. However for civilians and LE the Glock 17 and the Glock 19 have proven to be some of the two best models of 9mm on the market. Modern hollow-point ammo not withstanding.

    ND's are a happenstance of training. Law Enforcement varies from State, county, city, town, etc. Some are given extended training from premier educators like at Thunder Ranch and some are only given basic refreshers to the minimum state requirements. Gunsite Academy while founded by Cooper is an excellent and well respected place to get trained, I don't buy into the .45/10mm as a defensive round.

    EVEN BILL WILSON from WILSON COMBAT uses a 9mm as a carry pistol now. FMJ versus FMJ bigger bullet wins. JHP it becomes a whole different narrative.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2015
  11. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf SE Portland Well-Known Member

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    An alumnus of Gunsite is his claim to fame?
    Lol, who didn't take some classes at Gunsite?
    wow
     
  12. Jacurso

    Jacurso Douglas Co. Active Member

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    All good points NSDQ.
    Not to mention that Cooper was a very arrogant bugger.
    I met him at the NRA Convention in Reno in 1987. I introduced myself as a law enforcement officer from Oregon and Calif. He shook my hand as I was telling him that I was an instructor and would like to attend his Gunsite Course some day in the near future.
    He said, come on down and see us and learn something....and turned around and walked away.....with his nose in the air. I was a nobody and he had no interest in speaking with me. It's not like he was in a hurry to go anywhere as he waltzed over to talk to Bill Ruger and others.
    A few minutes later......I bumped into Ray Chapman. A prince of a guy, he stopped and talked to me for at least 5 minutes and was very cordial and pleasant. A good experience.
    http://www.chapmanacademyofpracticalshooting.com/raychapman.php

    http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...tors-so-to-speak-jeff-cooper-vs-massad-ayoob/
     
  13. NSDQ

    NSDQ NW Portland, Oregon Active Member

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    I have no doubt cooper was an excellent trainer. I agree and still respect his opinion that shooters have become spoiled with modern accessories. Solid training is lost.

    I had the distinct pleasure to work with John MAckenroe who was one of the early educators on the Glock and an official trainer for the PPB. He often criticized the cooper mentality behind the 1911 as unwarranted in an age of modern handgun ammo. But the Glock remains. For polymer striker fired pistols the Glock is by far the best.
     
  14. Jacurso

    Jacurso Douglas Co. Active Member

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    Agreed.
    I don't remember if I met John when I went to Glock Armorers school, but there are some great Glock folks out there.
    I was the sole trainer for my 120 person department, when we transitioned from revolvers to Glocks in 1990. I saw so many officers go from mediocre shooters, to very good ones, the first time they handled the Glock.