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Although our friends in blue regularly use a suboptimal approach to situations, I think it's wise to wait and see how all details come out. From what I see, it does look questionable.




Don't know the legislation in your neck of the woods, but here in WA justifiable homicide is fortunately not only after you've dodged incoming fire.


So a Cop person can kill you long after the altercation or perceived altercation is over with? An officer or group of officers thought they herd a gun shot then chased a perceived bad guy, killed him and people are ok with this?


That sounds more like Sharia law then it does a one that's in our American system.
 
It's fishy to me that there were multiple dash cams and the reporters video available but the LEOs have not released them to the public. I "think" it may be because incriminating evidence against the cops or the gore in the videos. Hopefully we get to see them soon.
 
It will be interesting to hear from the 15 cops who did not shoot...

I don't foresee this happening any time soon.

Would you testify against these guys? Sign your own death warrant?
This will just go away. They will try to do something but they will never have evidence or witnesses.
Alive.

I don't believe that the up rise of police violence is just because of more videos and cameras. It seems as though they have just gone over the edge in some cities and don't really give a bubblegum any more.
The cop union and the PTB take care of them . Hey gotta quell the law suits.
To he!! with public safety,we can't afford law suits.
 
So a Cop person can kill you long after the altercation or perceived altercation is over with? An officer or group of officers thought they herd a gun shot then chased a perceived bad guy, killed him and people are ok with this?

I don't think I said or even implied this anywhere.


That sounds more like Sharia law then it does a one that's in our American system.

I wouldn't restrict such a system to islamic dictatorships, but expand it to dictatorships in general, including the single-party systems still prevalent in some places.
 
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... What are some of the remaining questions?

The release of police radio transmissions on Monday raised some new issues. The recordings reveal that some Cleveland police in the 5th District were ordered to call off the chase five minutes before the shooting occurred, even though McGrath said earlier in the day that he did not believe a supervisor had requested the chase be stopped. Police continue to search the route of the chase to see if the suspects might have tossed a gun.

The issue of race is being raised after it was learned that of the 13 officers involved in the shooting, 12 are white and one is Hispanic.

There are still questions on exactly how many police were at the scene of the shooting, and whether officers from other departments used their weapons. It has been learned that four of the Cleveland officers involved in the shooting have a history of violent confrontation. Also, a report from the Cuyahoga County Medical Examiner's Office was released today ruling Williams' death a homicide. However, he did not yet rule on a cause of death for Russell.


Cleveland police-chase shooting: As more information emerges, so do the questions | cleveland.com

Listen to Cleveland police radio transmissions of chase that ended in shooting of 2 in East Cleveland | cleveland.com
Cleveland police ordered to terminate chase 5 minutes before deadly shooting, radio recordings reveal (video, gallery, audio) | cleveland.com
4 Cleveland police officers in deadly car chase were involved in other violent confrontations | cleveland.com
Malissa Williams and Timothy Russell: death as a result of homicide, medical examiner rules | cleveland.com
 
I'll chime in here on a couple things.

First, am at a loss for words on this one. I hope the whole truth comes out, but...

Homicide, is the killing of one person by another, be it lawful or not.
So, true...it is a homicide by definition...nothing more.



Wolvee posted;
...if you're not being shot at, you can't kill the bad guy.

T'aint true. Sometimes if you're shot at first, you aint alive to shoot back.
Contrary to popular belief, you don't have to see a weapon before you shoot.


Let's try to keep this as factual as possible, eh?


As for dash-cam recording. They will need to be looked at, before being released.
They can't be tampered with easily without being discovered.
Too many safeguards in place in the machines to allow that.


Makes one wonder why the people just didn't pull over from the start.


Me thinks I'll retire now and go deliver pizzas!
 
..T'aint true. Sometimes if you're shot at first, you aint alive to shoot back.
Contrary to popular belief, you don't have to see a weapon before you shoot.


Let's try to keep this as factual as possible, eh?..

Of course LEO have the discretion to perceive a threat even if there isn't one and protect themselves, as do most Americans to a certain degree but LEO have an implied immunity because, "They serve the greater good". (I'm sure there's a word for it but I can't think of it.)

If these two civilians acted in a way to give the officers the feeling of being a threat then I don't have as big of a problem. I also don't mind officers going "Over Kill" when they feel the need to kill. Either way they're dead, one just looks worse to the ignorant.

What's becoming alarming is the fact that so far by this interview up to 18 officers fired 7-8 rounds each into unarmed citizens. I would completely agree though that if the dead citizens actions grossly showed that they were a threat then we can move on past this without much issue and this can be a training/talking point. Waiting for an external investigation is the best thing to do.

What appears to be coming into view is that while firing the, group think mentality like you'd see in a mob riot. Although sociologically it can be explained, (People are dumber in groups) every individual is solely responsible for their own actions. TMK There is no argument to be made or legal precedence for "well, everyone else was doing it."
 
Could you clarify that please?
RCW 9A.16.040: Justifiable homicide or use of deadly force by public officer, peace officer, person aiding.


(1) Homicide or the use of deadly force is justifiable in the following cases:

(a) When a public officer is acting in obedience to the judgment of a competent court; or

(b) When necessarily used by a peace officer to overcome actual resistance to the execution of the legal process, mandate, or order of a court or officer, or in the discharge of a legal duty.

(c) When necessarily used by a peace officer or person acting under the officer's command and in the officer's aid:

(i) To arrest or apprehend a person who the officer reasonably believes has committed, has attempted to commit, is committing, or is attempting to commit a felony;

(ii) To prevent the escape of a person from a federal or state correctional facility or in retaking a person who escapes from such a facility; or

(iii) To prevent the escape of a person from a county or city jail or holding facility if the person has been arrested for, charged with, or convicted of a felony; or

(iv) To lawfully suppress a riot if the actor or another participant is armed with a deadly weapon.

(You can check out the rest at the link. Also take care to read this note attached to the law:
Legislative recognition: "The legislature recognizes that RCW 9A.16.040 establishes a dual standard with respect to the use of deadly force by peace officers and private citizens, and further recognizes that private citizens' permissible use of deadly force under the authority of RCW 9.01.200, 9A.16.020, or 9A.16.050 is not restricted and remains broader than the limitations imposed on peace officers."
 
Only police are trained to shoot accurately around a crowd. If you think a theater full of armed citizens would have stopped the colorado "Joker" shooter you are deluding yourselves. The police should be the only ones with guns on school campuses, because they have training and you are delusional if you think anyone with a CCW could have stopped the Virginia Tech shooter.












NOTE- The above is sarcasm.... Rosie O'Donnell style. ;)
 
and let us not forget how well they did in NYC shooting one man armed with a 1911...they shot, what, 8 more people trying to get the bad guy? In this case, they did have to shot, but they could have done a much better job of only hitting the perp..
 
Only police are trained to shoot accurately around a crowd. If you think a theater full of armed citizens would have stopped the colorado "Joker" shooter you are deluding yourselves. The police should be the only ones with guns on school campuses, because they have training and you are delusional if you think anyone with a CCW could have stopped the Virginia Tech shooter.











NOTE- The above is sarcasm.... Rosie O'Donnell style. ;)

almost thought wtf then saw the bottom note :s0140:
 

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