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Discussion in 'Preparedness & Survival' started by Just Jim, Jun 14, 2010.

  1. Just Jim

    Just Jim Well-Known Member

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    "I'm not sold on the idea of a remote, isolated, bug-out location anymore. Seems history shows that when the S does HTF, the people living isolated in the countryside become fodder for thieves and bandits and bear the brunt of the violence. Usually shockingly brutal violence.

    Read about what happened to the farmers in Rhodesia and the people living in the countryside areas of Argentina when their respective SHTF situations went down. They ended up robbed, raped, pillaged, and slaughtered with alarming regularity. Go ahead and scream all you want. No one can hear you 'cause your nearest neighbor is 3 miles away. They'll just camp out there and torture you and your family until you given them what they want. If you're really unlucky all they'll want is entertainment. You may be armed, but you can't put up a FOB level defensive guard forever. If you have what they want, eventually they'll get through and have their way with you.

    No, I think that it may be a better idea to set up in a small suburban community. Get a decent house with a good strong fence and good neighbors to keep an ear out for trouble and you might be better off."

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    Guy on another site seem to make a good point. He uses history to point out what mistakes we might make today.

    jj
     
  2. EZLivin

    EZLivin SW of PDX Well-Known Member

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    FerFAL makes a similar point in his book on surviving in Argentina. Makes a lot of sense to me. Seems like a more logical option than trying to live in isolation, or running around the woods fighting over who gets the last rodent.
     
  3. powersbj

    powersbj Seattle Area Active Member

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    Depends on the crisis I think, a currency collapse vs a natural disaster etc...
     
  4. xstayfrostyx

    xstayfrostyx PDX Member

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    I have come to realize that this is likely the only option for long-term survival in a true SHTF scenario IMHO.

    It's easy to romanticize the idea of bugging out to some picture perfect BOL in the woods, and go mad-max on anyone's arse who dares to test your resolve... but it's just not realistic.

    Pic related:

    loot_we_shoot.jpg
     
  5. Cougfan2

    Cougfan2 Hillsboro, OR Well-Known Member

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    Hey, where'd you get the picture of my neighborhood? :laugh:
     
  6. coctailer

    coctailer Portland, OR/Hastings, MI/Vancouver,WA I run with scissors.

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    What I think most people argue about is why THEIR plan will work and others will throw out scenarios showing how it WILL NOT work.

    I would like to have a BOL in addition to a place in the suburbs.

    What will happen in SHTF? We don't know.

    My suggestion is to have both..........or all 3..........or all 10 as far as plans go.

    When it happens, your first plan will fail. Or at least I believe you should pretend that it will just in case.
     
  7. EZLivin

    EZLivin SW of PDX Well-Known Member

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    That is why I really value hearing from people who have lived through difficult situations in other countries (or here, like with Katrina). No situation will unfold exactly like previous ones, but human nature being what it is we can rely on humans to act in similar fashion when events occur. Fortunately (or maybe unfortunately) we have modern examples of natural disasters, partial and/or total currency collapse, and wars to see how things could play out, and more importantly, to learn from the mistakes and successes of those who lived through them.
     
  8. coctailer

    coctailer Portland, OR/Hastings, MI/Vancouver,WA I run with scissors.

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    Agreed,
    I'm just saying don't rely on only one plan and write off the possibility of using a backup plan or 2.

    For example:
    There are tons of people that have posted in this forum that they plan on bugging in...............even in threads about bugging out.:huh:
    I'm assuming these posters have no bug out plan.
    Suck to be them if their neighborhood burns down.
     
  9. Just Jim

    Just Jim Well-Known Member

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    :bluelaugh::bluelaugh::bluelaugh: Depends on who is doing the burning :bluelaugh::bluelaugh: Nice to have an open field of fire at times:D

    jj
     
  10. Bruce

    Bruce Jefferson County, Wa Member

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    There is safety in numbers. Yes an old line, but very true. I cannot watch my back 24-7. That is what friends are for.
     
  11. Silver Fox

    Silver Fox Puyallup, WA Well-Known Member

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    No one plan will ever survive contact 100%. "bugging in" may work in Burns, OR and it may really suck in Portland, OR while a big city like Springfield, OR it could be 50/50. Who knows? Nobody. It is difficult to plan for something like a SHTF scenario when there isn't an actual end statement other than "live to see tomorrow".

    The rural country side of Argentina vs. the rural country side of Oregon is really an apples vs. oranges discussion (population density, demographics, local economy of resources etc...). We can look at past events and try predict the out come, but really we are p!ssing in the wind and guessing the outcome when it comes to human nature.

    I think the important thing to remember is to make a plan and be flexible enough to adjust accordingly. Have a back up plan. Have alternate routes. Some have to bug out and some will have to bug in.

    The biggest problem I see are expanded egos and the overwhelmingly desire to push their plan or idea off to someone as the only plan to have. Not everybody is going to be in the same situation. Accept it and move on. Worry about yourself and stop trying to fix everyones problem as you see it. It is great that we can sit down and discuss ideas and bounce scenarios off each other, but we are not really doing ourselves any favors worrying about someone else now are we?

    I guess I had some pent up ranting to do. Rant off.

    SF-
     
  12. Gunner3456

    Gunner3456 Salem Well-Known Member

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    Well said. You can't judge your place or your situation by someone else's.
     
  13. Gunner3456

    Gunner3456 Salem Well-Known Member

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    Water. How many places in the suburbs have clean natural and inexhaustible water? After a few weeks, where are you going to get it?

    One size doesn't fit all.
     
  14. roar9roar

    roar9roar Estacada, OR Member

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    You guys are on the right track, but missing the overall point. You need the tools (beans, bullets, bandaids) and the forethought to let the world eat itself while you sit and read. We all assume it will happen overnight, but it may take weeks or months for it to circle the toilet. Pick a senario and plan for it, and exactly the opposite will happen. Then you have planned for nothing. If you educate yourself in how to make soap, how to clean water, how to grow food, how to do anything without electricity you are 100 times ahead of the game. Most of the failure governments don't have people living at our standards. They live in houses without power already, so a collapse is not so shocking. They are still waking and tending the herd, their way of life does not change. Take any person in downtown portland and tell them they are now drinking out of puddles and crapping in buckets, 2 hours to melt down. If you haven't read Patriots you have no clue. Good starter book to get you reading.
     
  15. TheHossUSMC

    TheHossUSMC Eugene Member

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    Amen! EVERYBODY should be prepping the essentials.
    These guys have some good philosophy or prepping vids.

    http://www.youtube.com/user/MrLockandload
    check out his vids on bugging in

    http://www.youtube.com/user/Yankeeprepper
    awesome dude

    http://www.youtube.com/user/AnalyticalSurvival
    I think he is a fan of bugging out but great vids on prepping

    http://www.youtube.com/user/USNERDOC
    Great stuff on med kits from a professional and stuff on ham radios

    http://www.youtube.com/user/wranglerbarn
    Bugging out done right. Check out his vids on his off the grid property.

    http://www.youtube.com/user/nutnfancy
    Love him or hate him he has some great gear reviews although they tend to be long.
     
  16. rdt

    rdt SW Portland Active Member

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    Lessons from other scenarios are great, to a point. One difference between Zimbabwe or Argentina is they tanked *one at a time.* The resources of the world are not infinite (much as I wish they were) and there may not be international aid, or a global economy to reintegrate with after the SHTF. What if the IMF etc loans all their money to Greece, Spain and a half dozen other economically collapsed countries before we collapse? Will they just print more money? Better question: who here thinks they wont? We are headed for a GLOBAL collapse, and there are probably not enough resources to rebuild after the die off.

    On that note, rape murder and theft will likely be unimaginably rampant everywhere, rural and urban. Sixes. This story has no happy ending. Billions will die. The OP is right. So are other posts. IMO, seems like the best odds (still terrible) would be a medium sized (35-110) group in a remote location. Evade detection, overwhelm with force if discovered. It sort of worked for the monasteries when Rome fell apart.

    "Yeah, Right!" I can hear you all scoff. I know I know, Ive seen more groups fall apart than Id like to, and my faith in long term collaboration is low. The scenario is unlikely for the very reasons being discussed about egoism and plans.

    It reminds me of something from when the South American colonies were fighting their Revolutionary wars against Europe. Spain forbid anyone not *Born* in Spain, regardless of race, to hold a job higher than laborer. As a result, no one had any skills of administration or social collaboration - everything collapsed without Spanish. This (evilly brilliant) strategy delayed revolution for about 20 years. Its like that here in America today, we dont have the skills we need to work together, ironically, the very Town Hall skills that made our Revolution possible.

    Sorry to drone on. . .
     
  17. EZLivin

    EZLivin SW of PDX Well-Known Member

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    Not all of us do. It is a process that has been underway for quite sometime (several years actually). Unfortunately most people get their information from the mainstream media, so they are still clueless as to where things are headed. Why anyone listens to politicians and mainstream media is totally beyond me. They didn't see the tech bubble, they didn't see the housing bubble, they still don't see the bull market in precious metals even though it has been going on for 8 years, and they continually spew out moronic absurdities such as "we are in a recovery." Recovery? :laugh: This is the friggin COLLAPSE of the western world's debt-based economic system!

    I don't think things will degenerate to the level described in Patriots, but most people in the US are going to be in for the shock of their lives when hyperinflation kicks in. Of course most will cry to their "elected officials" to "do something." Do something? :laugh: Ya right, THEY caused it!
     
  18. Oohrah

    Oohrah NorthwestSouthern Oregon Coast Member

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    I live in a remote coastal area just outside of a small community. The people in the area meet once a month to discuss various subjects such as food storage, canning, communications, self sustaining, and other such subjects should a natural disaster, or man made problems occur. Many have taken basic, and advanced firearms tactics classes, along with an advanced field first aid training. Called "neighborhood watch", some are connected to the county emergency services programs, and have had CERT training as well as Incident Command, Fema training. By having trained neighbors, who you at least know, and are established by being residents, why would you even think of bugging out into the unknown. It would most almost surely end in disaster.:confused:
     
  19. kenno

    kenno eastern WA Active Member

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    Ilive in an almost identicle small community between 2 small rivers that run through deep gorges. To city folk our locations are BOLs! I just wish the locals would organize along the lines of a neighborhood watch like yours do!
     
  20. phathom

    phathom Vancouver, WA Member

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    Luckily for me, I leave within a few minutes walking of a few nature areas that have streams running through them. With a halfway decent water filter, there is good drinking water indefinitely.
    I'm just glad I've had good survival training growing up as well as training from work that gets renewed annually for first aid and emergency care. I know that will prove valuable in the future.