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More coverage of recent ATF stings against gun show sellers. Includes other people beyond David Devenny.

Federal agents have seized hundreds of guns in a series of raids against suspected gun dealers, including a retired cop and another man thought to have sold the gun used to kill a Seattle police officer.

According to recently unsealed court documents, federal agents last month conducted a series of stings against four men thought to be illegally dealing firearms at Western Washington gun shows. Court documents suggest that several of the men were sold hundreds of firearms without reporting the sales to authorities or conducting background checks......

Lots of new information in this article.
 
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Hmmm. When I was working in Eastern WA last summer, I was given the phone number of a 'retired police officer' who sold firearms. When it was then explained that he sold them out of the back of his truck in the 'Walmart parking lot', I threw the number away. I didn't want anything to do with that. I wonder if that guy was involved with this story?

Keith
 
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Among those whose homes were searched was Roy S. Alloway, identified as a police officer living in Port Orchard who retired in May, according to a Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives search warrant affidavit. Alloway has not been charged.

As part of the operation launched in May 2009, undercover agents attended various gun shows around Western Washington posing as customers or would-be unlicensed gun dealers, an ATF special agent based in Seattle told the court in the unsealed search warrant documents.

So when does the ATF think you're a dealer vs. a private seller? I can see more legislation coming into the private seller arena. Soon it will just be illegal.
 
In California, private sales without an FFL dealer are alreay illegal. This includes all transferes of any firearm. The exception is the family hand down. The thing is, each transfer was handled like you were buying from the dealer, the whole 10 day wait period, as well as the back ground check. It is a royal pain.
 
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they make it sound like all gun shows are poorly run. At the WAC show you have ot be a member to buy or sell guns. All members have a backgound check run all on them.
If you as a vendor sell or attemp to sell to a non member you are blackballed when found out.
 
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In California, private sales without an FFL dealer are alreay illegal. This includes all transferes of any firearm. The exception is the family hand down. The thing is, each transfer was handled like you were buying from the dealer, the whole 10 day wait period, as well as the back ground check. It is a royal pain.

I will never play by that horsebubblegum here in WA.
 
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I will never play by that horsebubblegum here in WA.

the laws we could be reading about you being arrested!

I don't like restrictions on my Constitutional Rights either, but I don't break the gun laws either!

----------------------------------------------------------

The "Trade Rating" is low by 3
Not everyone posts it I guess.

Deen
NRA Benefactor/Recruiter
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In California, private sales without an FFL dealer are alreay illegal. This includes all transferes of any firearm. The exception is the family hand down. The thing is, each transfer was handled like you were buying from the dealer, the whole 10 day wait period, as well as the back ground check. It is a royal pain.

Not all privates sales. Long guns 50 years old (mosins, some sks'es, etc) can be legally sold in parking lots bypassing ffl's.
 
Not all privates sales. Long guns 50 years old (mosins, some sks'es, etc) can be legally sold in parking lots bypassing ffl's.

Not sure where you got the info, but I was talking about CA. There may be the antique exception but no one goes by that. Yeah, just try going to a gun show in CA and sell your 50 year old gun in the parking lot. The cops would be all over you like stink on something. Gun shows are under the looking glass down there and venue after venue are being forced to close/not allow shows.
Also, SKS is a bad word in CA, the hoops that have to be jumped through to own one is prohibitive. Get caught with one that will take a magazine and you are royally screwed. Then, get caught selling one in the parking lot. Too much of a legal hassle, even if you might be in the right. And you would lose the gun and would take even more legal wrangling to get it back. Authorities in CA are notoriously slow about returning rightfully owned firearms.
California's gun laws are more based upon emotion than common sense. They ban guns for what they look like. One of the many reasons why it is good to be gone from there. Granted, there is more to it than just emotion
but not much.
 
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Not sure where you got the info, but I was talking about CA. There may be the antique exception but no one goes by that. Yeah, just try going to a gun show in CA and sell your 50 year old gun in the parking lot. The cops would be all over you like stink on something. Gun shows are under the looking glass down there and venue after venue are being forced to close/not allow shows.
Also, SKS is a bad word in CA, the hoops that have to be jumped through to own one is prohibitive. Get caught with one that will take a magazine and you are royally screwed. Then, get caught selling one in the parking lot. Too much of a legal hassle, even if you might be in the right. And you would lose the gun and would take even more legal wrangling to get it back. Authorities in CA are notoriously slow about returning rightfully owned firearms.
California's gun laws are more based upon emotion than common sense. They ban guns for what they look like. One of the many reasons why it is good to be gone from there. Granted, there is more to it than just emotion
but not much.

I've just moved from CA, so I'm pretty fluent with CA legal issues ;)

Buying from a Private Party WITHOUT a Dealer

For a very narrow range of firearms, no dealer or license is required. An individual can purchase Curio or Relic long guns without using an FFL and with or without having a Curio and Relic/03 Federal License themselves.

California uses the Federal definition of C&R guns (Penal Code 12078(t)(2))

(2) Subdivision (d) and paragraph (1) of subdivision (f) of
Section 12072 shall not apply to the infrequent sale, loan, or
transfer of a firearm that is not a handgun, which is a curio
or relic manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date,
but not including replicas thereof, as defined in Section 478.11
of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, or its successor.

Penal Code 12072(d) requires 2 non-licensed individuals to use an FFL in a Penal Code 12082 Private Party Transfer; the above is an exception to that requirement.

Buying and selling firearms in California - Calguns Wiki
 
Ok, I stand corrected. There are 2 exceptions, to correct my original posting. But if you look at the narrow range of what is allowed without a FFL, it is only a small percentage, if even a percentage of the total transactions.
Btw, just moved from CA myself, so not a new the laws down there.
 
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Ok, I stand corrected. There are 2 exceptions, to correct my original posting. But if you look at the narrow range of what is allowed without a FFL, it is only a small percentage, if even a percentage of the total transactions.
Btw, just moved from CA myself, so not a new the laws down there.

Well, if you think about the number of Mosin rifles produced in the Eastern Block, the number breakdown may change a bit :D

On a serious note, FTF in California is a tricky business. I've had experience of running into a DOJ fishermen that way. In fact calguns.net and especially its classifieds section is known to be monitored by CA DOJ.

As for your statement about SKS, it's really much simpler than you describe. Some SKS variants are considered Assault Weapons by make/model, and can't be sold to California residents in any shape or form (can be possessed if purchased before the ban and registered). Others, like Yugo 59/66, are considered AW due to grenade launcher, which can modified (typically prior importation into CA) and be sold like any other normal rifle.
Finally, 50+ year old Russian, Romanian, Albanian, Yugo M59, and many others can be sold in FTF (parking lot) transactions without any issues.
 
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