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Concern for Officer Safety is reduced, considerably, by the following:

When you see you are being pulled over, these things provide your protection, as well as showing the Officer your awareness!

First: have at ~least~ your license out, if not registration, insurance papers.

Second: Lock your door, roll your window down enough for speaking, and paper exchange if needed.

Third: turn vehicle OFF.

Fourth: PLACE both of your hands, on TOP of your Steering Wheel (around the wheel, like driving), and KEEP them THERE, until you are asked to move, to say hand out your license out, then say "my license is on the dash, i will get it now",etc.

That last part shows them you are not doing something they did not ask of YOU!!!

That your hands are fully visable is an imediate (internal) sigh of relief for ANY LEO !!!!

It is when they can not see BOTH of your HANDS, that concern for their safety escalates, our job, yes, it is a "job" is to present ourselves as No Threat, not a SHEEP, just not a threat.

When the sticky questions come, may I Search, etc. you can then reply as needed, knowing you have already been compliant, without THEIR REQUEST, and that Does Help.

AT NIGHT, for YOUR safety, and Theirs, turn on your overhead lights inside your car (dome lights or more). This provides YOUR eyes, time to adjust to brighter lights, and ~If~ the law man flashes his flash light in your eyes, you will have better responding time to return to night vision, by having the extra "dull" lights for vision.

Of course, all of above, is based upon your being completely legal in your car...

A while back, I was driving in the rain, I hit a patch of rain slicked mud, and it was a single car incident. My car was totaled, and just before the wrecker was going to do the pull, I said "Officer, I do have One Request of you, for assistance". He asked what... I stated that I had some guns in the car, and needed assistance in transfering them to the car (my family) picking me up to go home.

He said no problem, I unlocked the glove box, took out two hand guns, my regular carry. From the back of the car, a recently purchased long gun... And then another long gun, just back from my gunsmith. At NO TIME, was the officer overly concerned, or questioned me as to FOUR Weapons? Nothing.... We had already developed a good relationship, by my following the above concepts, that I regularly have Practised, over the last 20+ years or so... And no, there have NOT been very many Stops.... But When... Then I do as above.

In fact, I drove away from a ticket, in Beaverton, by just doing as above, and when asked, "what gives"? I simply said I was new to the area, and lost, AND, without Skipping a beat, I also asked how to get where I wanted to GO!!

The officer could have given me a from yellow to red ticket, it was the last second of yellow, braking would have left me in the "wrong area", so I goosed the gas pedal. Instead, he got to feel good, helping a lost traveler, in his City...

Relationships, all of them, are a Two Party Concept, you can only do your part, but that often provides interest,in the other person doing theirs....

philip,
In the boondocks, we say howdy, and even leave OFF the "stranger" part !!!!
 
Just to give the cops a bad time

There are a lot of guys doing open carry solely to give cops a bad time. They're doing it with a chip on their shoulder. This is my issue with 2A Rights supporters not being considerate and graceful, yet turning around and villainizing officers for not being tactful and graceful. I think everyone should start valuing tact, grace, and politeness more than we tend to.

I am all for standing up for your rights. I am all for publicizing your rights and educating others. I don't agree with "Just to give the cops a bad time." I feel this is what the fellow in the original article was doing. He did what he did solely to give officers a bad time. I have trouble supporting that.

To be honest, I do find the idea of carrying a pipe in the case to be amusing. It's the sort of thing I'd have been tempted to do when I was much younger.
 
There are a lot of guys doing open carry solely to give cops a bad time. They're doing it with a chip on their shoulder. This is my issue with 2A Rights supporters not being considerate and graceful, yet turning around and villainizing officers for not being tactful and graceful. I think everyone should start valuing tact, grace, and politeness more than we tend to.

I am all for standing up for your rights. I am all for publicizing your rights and educating others. I don't agree with "Just to give the cops a bad time." I feel this is what the fellow in the original article was doing. He did what he did solely to give officers a bad time. I have trouble supporting that.

To be honest, I do find the idea of carrying a pipe in the case to be amusing. It's the sort of thing I'd have been tempted to do when I was much younger.

I value my time, privacy, and my fundamental civil rights. So, when I am walking down the street with a locked and cased firearm I expect to be left alone. I do not like to be harassed by the cops, and that is what happened. They approached me in a confrontational manner and illegally held, detained, and arrested me against my will.

If they would have left me alone I wouldn't have been charged with a bogus charge, and there would be no civil suit forthcoming.
 
There are a lot of guys doing open carry solely to give cops a bad time. They're doing it with a chip on their shoulder. This is my issue with 2A Rights supporters not being considerate and graceful, yet turning around and villainizing officers for not being tactful and graceful. I think everyone should start valuing tact, grace, and politeness more than we tend to.

I am all for standing up for your rights. I am all for publicizing your rights and educating others. I don't agree with "Just to give the cops a bad time." I feel this is what the fellow in the original article was doing. He did what he did solely to give officers a bad time. I have trouble supporting that.

To be honest, I do find the idea of carrying a pipe in the case to be amusing. It's the sort of thing I'd have been tempted to do when I was much younger.

maybe they will think twice about violating peoples rights after a few gun cases with pipes in them and the city pays.
15k x 15 or 20 someone will get their but put on the carpet
 
There are a lot of guys doing open carry solely to give cops a bad time. They're doing it with a chip on their shoulder. This is my issue with 2A Rights supporters not being considerate and graceful, yet turning around and villainizing officers for not being tactful and graceful. I think everyone should start valuing tact, grace, and politeness more than we tend to.

I am all for standing up for your rights. I am all for publicizing your rights and educating others. I don't agree with "Just to give the cops a bad time." I feel this is what the fellow in the original article was doing. He did what he did solely to give officers a bad time. I have trouble supporting that.

To be honest, I do find the idea of carrying a pipe in the case to be amusing. It's the sort of thing I'd have been tempted to do when I was much younger.

I do not know where you get your ideas of OC people, but it's wrong. On top of that, as OC is legal, just like walking around with a holstered cell phone, there is no reason for any LE contact...IF LE is doing their job properly.

I have OC'd for over 43 years now (July 1970) and I have NEVER tried to bait LE, and I have NEVER been hassled by LE, but I do OC everywhere unless the weather demands a coat. I do not own a cell phone, (don't want one) and I do not carry a recorder or a camera...and I do not do UTube.

I have had 3 pleasant encounters with LE in those 43 years, and have never been asked for my ID or my CPL. I have been asked to leave a few businesses, and have explained the reason I will no longer patronize that business. In one case that was enough to get the business policy changed. I have testified at town council, and the CoP, who was also there, never said a word, neither did the mayor or any councilman...

No-one will know you support the 2A if you always hide your carry, now will you? You will never "Normalize" any form of carry if you always hide you carry. You will never serve notice of those that would do you ill that you are prepared to defend yourself and your loved ones...now will you?

And you will never train those in LE that do not wish to follow the law, and make carry easier and safer for other people that wish to carry for their own personal self defense, but don't want to pay for the RIGHT to defend themselves.
 
This kind of stuff doesn't help us at all. What it does is piss off the police officers (the vast majority of whom are on our side of this issue) and play into the "extremist" propaganda that the anti-gunners are spitting. This is a war for our rights and wars are won through strategy, and this is a losing strategy. On the other hand, the anti-gunners strategy of fear is working on a lot of people and, right now, we cant afford to look like anything except rational, reasonable, responsible, law abiding fellow citizens. We need to make the anti-gunners look foolish for peddling their hysteria, by teaching people that gun owners are normal, good people, and by calmly explaining why all of their arguments are factually incorrect.
 
Just get the CHL, its easier.
Got a CHL? Then those laws don't apply to you and you have your 2nd Amendment rights.
Don't have a CHL. so sorry.

In Tennessee a handgun carry permit is required to conceal or open carry loaded handguns. It is illegal to carry a loaded rifle or shotgun.

The Tennessee State Attorney General and the Courts have said that there is no right to a handgun carry permit.

Although I have carry permits from other states I do not have and may not receive a Tennessee carry permit so therefore cannot carry a loaded handgun in the State of Tennessee. I have been in litigation with the State of Tennessee over this issue since 2010.
 
This kind of stuff doesn't help us at all. What it does is piss off the police officers (the vast majority of whom are on our side of this issue) and play into the "extremist" propaganda that the anti-gunners are spitting. This is a war for our rights and wars are won through strategy, and this is a losing strategy. On the other hand, the anti-gunners strategy of fear is working on a lot of people and, right now, we cant afford to look like anything except rational, reasonable, responsible, law abiding fellow citizens. We need to make the anti-gunners look foolish for peddling their hysteria, by teaching people that gun owners are normal, good people, and by calmly explaining why all of their arguments are factually incorrect.

I believe I have the right to bear arms and will continue to do so. I barely count carrying an unloaded rifle in a locked case "bearing arms" but it must be part of the core right. Otherwise how could one purchase a firearm and it to ones house?
 
Sorta like me carrying my firearm openly here in Portland, Multnomah county without a CHL. My firearm must not be "Recklessly" loaded. Yeppie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I still get to exercise my 2nd Amendment right but my gun want work, darn. I guess I still get to bear arms at least.
 
I believe I have the right to bear arms and will continue to do so. I barely count carrying an unloaded rifle in a locked case "bearing arms" but it must be part of the core right. Otherwise how could one purchase a firearm and it to ones house?

I wasn't talking about carrying an unloaded rifle in a case, I am talking about strapping an AR-15 to your back and walking around your neighborhood hoping to video tape an interaction with a police officer and show him what's up. What good does this do? None. It makes us (gun folks) look childish and freaks people out.

The key to victory here is to win the hearts and minds of people who are on the fence. Forget the anti-gunners, they are a lost cause. Don't worry about the pro-gunners (NRA spends way too much time talking to us IMHO), we already have their hearts and minds. Worry about the middle ground people. They aren't sure where they stand on this issue, don't know or don't really care that much about it. By winning their support, we will tip the scales in our favor. They need to be educated on how the anti-gunners lie and spin their propaganda, shown how the anti-gunners are hysterical control freaks who want to take away freedom, and they need to be shown how the proposed laws will fail (and have failed) to achieve the impact on safety that they claim to be going after.

Think about how people who aren't interested in guns perceive these kinds of open carry stunts. Do they think to themselves "hey thats really cool what these guys are doing". No, that's what pro-gunners might think, but not what non/anti-gunners think. They tend to think these guys are nut jobs. That does NOT help us win those hearts and minds.

We should, by all means, exercise our second amendment rights, but we need to do so with those "middle of the road" folks in mind, win those hearts and minds, not freak them out for no gain whatsoever. This is a war of perception. We need to keep that in mind at ALL times or we will lose, bit by bit.
 
I wasn't talking about carrying an unloaded rifle in a case, I am talking about strapping an AR-15 to your back and walking around your neighborhood hoping to video tape an interaction with a police officer and show him what's up. What good does this do? None. It makes us (gun folks) look childish and freaks people out.

The key to victory here is to win the hearts and minds of people who are on the fence. Forget the anti-gunners, they are a lost cause. Don't worry about the pro-gunners (NRA spends way too much time talking to us IMHO), we already have their hearts and minds. Worry about the middle ground people. They aren't sure where they stand on this issue, don't know or don't really care that much about it. By winning their support, we will tip the scales in our favor. They need to be educated on how the anti-gunners lie and spin their propaganda, shown how the anti-gunners are hysterical control freaks who want to take away freedom, and they need to be shown how the proposed laws will fail (and have failed) to achieve the impact on safety that they claim to be going after.

Think about how people who aren't interested in guns perceive these kinds of open carry stunts. Do they think to themselves "hey thats really cool what these guys are doing". No, that's what pro-gunners might think, but not what non/anti-gunners think. They tend to think these guys are nut jobs. That does NOT help us win those hearts and minds.

We should, by all means, exercise our second amendment rights, but we need to do so with those "middle of the road" folks in mind, win those hearts and minds, not freak them out for no gain whatsoever. This is a war of perception. We need to keep that in mind at ALL times or we will lose, bit by bit.

People carry video recorders and audio recorders because the average persons word is worthless in a court of law. Have you ever been to traffic court? The cops words is gold and the motorists word is worthless.

Cops who confront open carriers are the ones looking for an interaction. Where open carry is legal why confront an open carrier? Why detain an open carrier?

I hope for the day that cops ignore the law abiding and start using their time looking for criminals.

I care less what non/anti-gunners think. If I choose to open carry an AR-15, and it is legal to carry in my area then by all means I will exercise that right. Just because you or your buddies don't like it doesn't mean that I can't or shouldn't exercise my right.
 
>> Cops who confront open carriers are the ones looking for an interaction.
No they are doing their job. Keep in mind that the vast majority of police strongly support the second amendment (see Police One survey) and they deserve our respect, especially when they are dealing with us when we are carrying weapons. When some fool grabs his camera and his AR-15 and walks down the block he is going to get people calling the police - in fact he is HOPING to get people to call the police, that's why he's doing it. The cops are then forced to come find out what is going on, because that is what their job is.

>> I care less what non/anti-gunners think.
If you want to win this political battle then you should rethink this. Those people get to vote on YOUR rights. You may think its unfair/unconstitutional or whatever, but that is not going to win this fight. We need to use our heads here. Hearts and minds is what this is all about and that starts with caring what those people think. You don't have to relinquish your rights but you DO have to start thinking about how your actions affect their perceptions and, eventually, where their votes go.
 
Lemme clarify, because it seems you are missing my point. I didn't say you don't have the RIGHT to do this, I am saying that it isn't smart to do this right now. There is little correlation between what is legal to do and what is good political strategy. That's is all.
 
>> Cops who confront open carriers are the ones looking for an interaction.
No they are doing their job. Keep in mind that the vast majority of police strongly support the second amendment (see Police One survey) and they deserve our respect, especially when they are dealing with us when we are carrying weapons. When some fool grabs his camera and his AR-15 and walks down the block he is going to get people calling the police - in fact he is HOPING to get people to call the police, that's why he's doing it. The cops are then forced to come find out what is going on, because that is what their job is.

>> I care less what non/anti-gunners think.
If you want to win this political battle then you should rethink this. Those people get to vote on YOUR rights. You may think its unfair/unconstitutional or whatever, but that is not going to win this fight. We need to use our heads here. Hearts and minds is what this is all about and that starts with caring what those people think. You don't have to relinquish your rights but you DO have to start thinking about how your actions affect their perceptions and, eventually, where their votes go.

So, a cop that confronts you for having your cellphone on while he arrests someone is "just doing his job"? Recording, video and audio, of an officer while "doing his job" is 100% legal, but many people have been hassled for it.

It is no different with OC. Where OC is legal, licensed or unlicensed, a cop that hassles the OC'er, just because they are OCing, is NOT "doing his job" It is not his job to hassle someone that is doing something that is legal (if it requires a license or not, read Delaware V Prouse)
 
>>So, a cop that confronts you for having your cellphone on while he arrests you is "just doing his job"?
If you think that, given recent events and the current political climate, walking down the street with a cellphone is comparable in any way to walking down the street with an AR-15 then you are just being dishonest with yourself. Being dishonest with yourself is not a good way to formulate a winning political strategy. Both things are legal, but they are NOT the same. That's just reality, and reality can be ignored but cannot be made to go away. If you want to keep your rights and get the rights you have already lost back then you need to consider how acts like this represent our community to those who have little or no interaction with us because their opinions matter at the polls. Whether you like it or not, your rights CAN and HAVE been abridged and the only way to stop the erosion is to for us to use our heads and be smart. We must change the tone of the national discussion and win the hearts of minds of the "middle ground" voters. If we lose them, we will continue to lose our rights and that is the reality we must deal with.
 

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