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Constructive Possession

Discussion in 'NFA Weapon Discussion' started by Ralgha, Nov 11, 2015.

  1. Ralgha

    Ralgha Portland Well-Known Member 2016 Volunteer

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    If I have a stripped lower, NO lower parts kit, and a 10.5" complete upper, would I be in danger of constructive possession? Is the lack of a lower parts kit enough to avoid it?

    What if I have one SBR (complete) lower, one non-SBR (complete) lower, 2 10.5" complete uppers and one 16" complete upper, is this scenario constructive possession?
     
  2. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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  3. The Heretic

    The Heretic Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Actually no (if I am reading what you say correctly).

    That used to be the way the BATF enforced the law, but Thompson Center sued and won in court. For some years now this has been the case law.

    If the lower was sold by the manufacturer as a pistol, then you can convert it to a rifle (by putting a rifle upper and rifle buttstock on it) and back again to a pistol (no buttstock, length of barrel doesn't matter). Just never put the buttstock and an upper with a barrel shorter than 16" on the lower at the same time unless you go the NFA SBR route.
     
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  4. jluck

    jluck Really,Really, Close to Newport Oregon 97365 Voted #1 Member

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    Create as a pistol first and you can go back and forth.

    ATF cases are case by case and constructive intent is basically out the window for the AR world being as modular and every half wit building them. If you got caught with threaded tube and baffles or home made lightning links you'd be screwed but nothing to worry about building a AR unless you actually have a illegal SBR built and showing pictures off or something stupid. I've seen it done. ..:eek:
     
  5. etrain16

    etrain16 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    +1 to both of these. I had a thread about this a few months back and had the same discussion. I was told the same thing - buy a lower and build it first as a pistol. Then you can go back and forth between pistol and rifle, no problem. The question came up about whether the lower is transferred as a pistol or rifle - so I talked to several FFL's about this. They are transferred as neither pistol nor rifle any longer, so it's up to the builder to decide what it will be.

    Best bet is to build every lower as a pistol first, then do what you want after that. I guess that means you take a photo of some kind showing it built as a pistol, but really, how can they track that information?
     
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  6. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    I'm glad to hear that issue has been "refined" a bit and I was aware of the Thompson-Center case, but that is a factory designed kit that is easily documented for a defense. I hear what you guys are saying (and I agree), but don't think for a moment that you won't go through a sheite-storm (that'll cost money) to prove you're "innocent" in the case "home-brew" kits. o_O
     
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  7. etrain16

    etrain16 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Obviously it wouldn't be the government unless it was confusing. After learning what I did, I simply made the decision that I would always build a lower as a pistol first, photograph it with a date stamp, for my own records, then go on with it as I will. Would that stop the feds if they wanted to push the issue? Maybe not, but it's at least something you could use in your defense. YMMV.
     
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  8. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    I've got a 16" upper being cut down to 11.5" by our own Velzey that will start life as a pistol then move on to be a SBR... then I'm gettin' a multi-cal can! :D
     
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  9. etrain16

    etrain16 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    @Velzey is good people. He just helped me out recently too.
     
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  10. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    I talked to him about threading the barrel on my .308 Ruger American, too. He said he's already done one and was amazed at how accurate the American series is.
     
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  11. etrain16

    etrain16 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I have the American in .22WMR, while that's not a big caliber like .308, it is an amazingly accurate rifle right out of the box.
     
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  12. Caveman Jim

    Caveman Jim West of Oly Springer Slayer 2016 Volunteer

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    What if you are using an 80% lower?:eek:
     
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  13. Deebow

    Deebow Portland Well-Known Member

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    I have heard people ask this kind of stuff often. I am always bewildered.

    Has this been a problem for anyone? The ATF isn't stopping by my house to see if my lowers match my uppers and what they are for. No one ever asks me about it at the range.

    Seems like a solution in search of problem.
     
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  14. SunTzu

    SunTzu portland, or Active Member

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    i just e-filed to build another sbr and I've been unsure about this topic. So far, I'm assembling the rifle but i'm not buying/installing a barrel until the stamp gets back.

    I had considered just assembling the thing as a "pistol" but I don't need to run the gun now so why waste the $50- on a weird pistol buffer tube?

    I have not purchased the barrel yet due to lingering doubts about intent to construct etc.

    Would I be in hot water for having a short barrel on hand that was never installed?
     
  15. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    Then you have a unique paperweight, my friend! :D
     
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  16. Caveman Jim

    Caveman Jim West of Oly Springer Slayer 2016 Volunteer

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    Well it's groved & tubed and ready to sooth my sole:p...
     
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  17. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    Your sole? Are you planning to step on it now? LMAO! :s0108: :s0112:
     
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  18. Caveman Jim

    Caveman Jim West of Oly Springer Slayer 2016 Volunteer

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    Dang ole friggin auto correct....... & Ifin it gets out of hand you bet I will!!!:eek::eek::eek::D
     
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  19. coyote223

    coyote223 NW Oregon Stamp Collector,,,

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    You're fine, nothing to worry about. They just let a straw purchaser, who bought a gun for a murderer, off with a slap on the wrist,,,:rolleyes:
     
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  20. Velzey

    Velzey Estacada, Oregon Gunsmith Gunsmith Bronze Vendor Bronze Supporter

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    No worries!

    Build it was a pistol! Take pictures as mentioned above!