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Connecticut to use no fly list to ban gun sales

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by PiratePast40, Dec 10, 2015.

  1. Charliehorse

    Charliehorse Cascade Mts - State of Jefferson USA Well-Known Member

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    4Freedom you continue to publish falsehoods. Why be unethical? Do you think that's what it takes to get TCruz to move up in the polls? Do you hear Cruz himself lie about DTrump? Maybe the CruzCrew should learn from Ted how to act responsibly in the debate.

    Donald J. Trump Position:

    Donald J. Trump on the Right to Keep and Bear Arms
    The Second Amendment to our Constitution is clear. The right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed upon. Period.

    The Second Amendment guarantees a fundamental right that belongs to all law-abiding Americans. The Constitution doesn’t create that right – it ensures that the government can’t take it away. Our Founding Fathers knew, and our Supreme Court has upheld, that the Second Amendment’s purpose is to guarantee our right to defend ourselves and our families. This is about self-defense, plain and simple.

    It’s been said that the Second Amendment is America’s first freedom. That’s because the Right to Keep and Bear Arms protects all our other rights. We are the only country in the world that has a Second Amendment. Protecting that freedom is imperative. Here’s how we will do that:

    Enforce The Laws On The Books

    We need to get serious about prosecuting violent criminals. The Obama administration’s record on that is abysmal. Violent crime in cities like Baltimore, Chicago and many others is out of control. Drug dealers and gang members are given a slap on the wrist and turned loose on the street. This needs to stop.

    Several years ago there was a tremendous program in Richmond, Virginia called Project Exile. It said that if a violent felon uses a gun to commit a crime, you will be prosecuted in federal court and go to prison for five years – no parole or early release. Obama’s former Attorney General, Eric Holder, called that a “cookie cutter” program. That’s ridiculous. I call that program a success. Murders committed with guns in Richmond decreased by over 60% when Project Exile was in place – in the first two years of the program alone, 350 armed felons were taken off the street.

    Why does that matter to law-abiding gun owners? Because they’re the ones who anti-gun politicians and the media blame when criminals misuse guns. We need to bring back and expand programs like Project Exile and get gang members and drug dealers off the street. When we do, crime will go down and our cities and communities will be safer places to live.

    Here’s another important way to fight crime – empower law-abiding gun owners to defend themselves. Law enforcement is great, they do a tremendous job, but they can’t be everywhere all of the time. Our personal protection is ultimately up to us. That’s why I’m a gun owner, that’s why I have a concealed carry permit, and that’s why tens of millions of Americans have concealed carry permits as well. It’s just common sense. To make America great again, we’re going to go after criminals and put the law back on the side of the law-abiding.

    Fix Our Broken Mental Health System

    Let’s be clear about this. Our mental health system is broken. It needs to be fixed. Too many politicians have ignored this problem for too long.

    All of the tragic mass murders that occurred in the past several years have something in common – there were red flags that were ignored. We can’t allow that to continue. We need to expand treatment programs, because most people with mental health problems aren’t violent, they just need help. But for those who are violent, a danger to themselves or others, we need to get them off the street before they can terrorize our communities. This is just common sense.

    And why does this matter to law-abiding gun owners? Once again, because they get blamed by anti-gun politicians, gun control groups and the media for the acts of deranged madmen. When one of these tragedies occurs, we can count on two things: one, that opponents of gun rights will immediately exploit it to push their political agenda; and two, that none of their so-called “solutions” would have prevented the tragedy in the first place. They’ve even admitted it.

    We need real solutions to address real problems. Not grandstanding or political agendas.

    Defend The Rights of Law-Abiding Gun Owners

    GUN AND MAGAZINE BANS. Gun and magazine bans are a total failure. That’s been proven every time it’s been tried. Opponents of gun rights try to come up with scary sounding phrases like “assault weapons”, “military-style weapons” and “high capacity magazines” to confuse people. What they’re really talking about are popular semi-automatic rifles and standard magazines that are owned by tens of millions of Americans. Law-abiding people should be allowed to own the firearm of their choice. The government has no business dictating what types of firearms good, honest people are allowed to own.

    BACKGROUND CHECKS. There has been a national background check system in place since 1998. Every time a person buys a gun from a federally licensed gun dealer – which is the overwhelming majority of all gun purchases – they go through a federal background check. Study after study has shown that very few criminals are stupid enough to try and pass a background check – they get their guns from friends/family members or by stealing them. So the overwhelming majority of people who go through background checks are law-abiding gun owners. When the system was created, gun owners were promised that it would be instant, accurate and fair. Unfortunately, that isn’t the case today. Too many states are failing to put criminal and mental health records into the system – and it should go without saying that a system’s only going to be as effective as the records that are put into it. What we need to do is fix the system we have and make it work as intended. What we don’t need to do is expand a broken system.

    NATIONAL RIGHT TO CARRY. The right of self-defense doesn’t stop at the end of your driveway. That’s why I have a concealed carry permit and why tens of millions of Americans do too. That permit should be valid in all 50 states. A driver’s license works in every state, so it’s common sense that a concealed carry permit should work in every state. If we can do that for driving – which is a privilege, not a right – then surely we can do that for concealed carry, which is a right, not a privilege.

    MILITARY BASES AND RECRUITING CENTERS. Banning our military from carrying firearms on bases and at recruiting centers is ridiculous. We train our military how to safely and responsibly use firearms, but our current policies leave them defenseless. To make America great again, we need a strong military. To have a strong military, we need to allow them to defend themselves.
    Dyjital likes this.
  2. Charliehorse

    Charliehorse Cascade Mts - State of Jefferson USA Well-Known Member

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  3. Goosebrown

    Goosebrown Beaverton Well-Known Member 2015 Volunteer

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    It has to go this way to get in the courts. Rights need challenges like this to grow. I have my doubts about the reception an AW ban would get at the SC, but this is clearly unconstitutional.
  4. etrain16

    etrain16 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Surprisingly, the ACLU is actually, and likely grudgingly, on our side on this. Though they argue their point for vastly different reasons than we do, it is important to keep an eye on what they're doing. They've been challenging the No Fly list for a while, and they are in court, in Portland, OR this week to continue that fight. They are demanding more transparency of the list, how/why people get on it, and a formal process for them to be reviewed, and, if deemed appropriate, removed.

    To be very clear, I see the ACLU as an enemy to gun owners as they simply have no interest in fighting for those rights. But, in this case, a tool being used against law abiding Americans crosses over into other freedoms, which the ACLU does care about. In other words, at least in a loose sense, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.


    There is no constitutional bar to reasonable regulation of guns, and the No Fly List could serve as one tool for it, but only with major reform. As we will argue to a federal district court in Oregon this Wednesday, the standards for inclusion on the No Fly List are unconstitutionally vague, and innocent people are blacklisted without a fair process to correct government error. Our lawsuit seeks a meaningful opportunity for our clients to challenge their placement on the No Fly List because it is so error-prone and the consequences for their lives have been devastating.
    Slobray, 4Freedom, dietrich and 4 others like this.
  5. Bushman

    Bushman Auburn, WA Well-Known Member

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    Makes you wonder about their motives doesn't it...
  6. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Does CT even have access to the no fly lists (as there are multiple lists of varying degree of bad guy ness)
    AMProducts likes this.
  7. mrblond

    mrblond Salem OR Well-Known Member

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    Tyler Durden should know. The 1st rule of Revolution is you don't talk about Revolution.
  8. David Bowman

    David Bowman Beaverton OR Archer Defense Concepts

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    So they are going to prevent 4 year olds and CNN reporters from getting guns...

    Great plan....

  9. Boboclown

    Boboclown North Carolina Well-Known Member

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    Not according to Feinstein.

    If the 2nd Amendment doesn't matter to them, then due process doesn't matter to them either.
    41Slinger likes this.
  10. Nick Burkhardt

    Nick Burkhardt NE Oregon Well-Known Member

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    It does not need to with a Clinton Supreme Court.
  11. STUKA

    STUKA Close to Milwaukie Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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    Ironically enough,Connecticut's state nickname is "The Constitution State"..
    MTpockets likes this.
  12. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    History shows that the first place where something awesome happens for mankind usually is turned into the biggest armpit of the world...

    Cradle of civilization (aka Middle East), now a shiete hole.

    Birthplace of Liberty (New England), now a bastion of tyranny.

    It's like some evil presence is working overtime to erase all records of REAL human achievements. o_O

    Because there is... :mad:
    etrain16, Slobray and Martini_Up like this.
  13. Martini_Up

    Martini_Up NW USA Well-Known Member

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    agreed. BUT, it's not the evil, its those that stand for it and do nothing about it.
    Stomper likes this.
  14. Who The F R U

    Who The F R U Rainier Oregon Well-Known Member

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    What if

    * All of the TV network's and newspapers are owned by 5 Defense companies.
    * Your government spies on everything you do electronically.
    * 90 % of history taught in school is a lie.
    * The United states trained and armed Al-Qaeda in the late 80's and early 90's.
    * Russia is the good guy and we are now the axis of evil.
    * Your government send's arms to enemies of the American people. yet at the same time tries to disarm you.
    * The CIA smuggle's drug's to fund illegal war's.
    * 42% of the U.S.A pay's for the other 58% who don't work.

    What if you did something about it ?
    Non compliance is the last step before revolution.

    "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2016
    EVILZ, Slobray, Captain O and 2 others like this.
  15. PaulB47

    PaulB47 Hillsboro Well-Known Member

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    "Rights" are a fanciful 18th century meme with little connection to reality. I can't understand why anybody still thinks they exist, against all evidence to the contrary. Fortunately they are not needed. Will power and determination are what is needed.

    The rulers will push harder and harder, the people will buy more and more guns, the black market will explode, and war will probably result. Heaven help us.
    nammac likes this.
  16. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    Best strap yourself in, there's no getting off this ride until it ends.
    nammac likes this.
  17. AMProducts

    AMProducts Maple Valley, WA Jerk, Ammo Manufacturer Silver Supporter

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    What always amuses me is the second and third order consequences. In a lot of ways this sums up the society in which we currently live today. Protestors go out and protest because X is wrong, or Y is wrong, and rarely will they come out and say the way to fix it is A or B, because the reason X and Y have not been fixed is that A and B are unpalatable to most of the people, instead they just agitate on the same set of problems until we're so sick of hearing about it, we finally accept A and eventually B.

    That said, nothing is a line. and nothing is simple. Especially when you're dealing with a complex system involving lots of moving parts, in order for CT's new law to go into effect, they would need to have access to the no fly list. This would essentially open up a giant back door to reviewing who is on the no fly list, and why. While this law is essentially unconstitutional, and unenforceable at the moment, passing such a law would offer a giant crowbar to open up the machinery cover of the no fly list.

    I heard or read something recently that talked about the kinds of people who find themselves in leadership, in the beginning it's the smart people, the virtuous people, but as things wear on eventually you get the people who are dumb, but are brutal enough to find themselves in a place of leadership. Usually they succeed by first running out the smart and virtuous, and then eventually everything goes to hell and the cycle repeats.

    In a lot of ways, the people who wanted to create this law are dumb brutes who want to rule by fiat, but liberty has not been so eroded that this is possible, instead they need to tie their fiats to those that have been able to weather scrutiny because their justifications were much larger, national security being a major one. At the moment, no one really has the ability to get the wedge beneath the bell-jar of the no-fly list. I'm sure there are people who deserve to be on there, but many more that there is no justification for. Taking such an action, would likely provide the leverage needed to crack it open.

    Politics is like a duel between samurai, your success is created not by how many times you do something correct, it's about how few times you don't screw up. And honestly, never interrupt your opponent when he's making a mistake.
  18. PaulB47

    PaulB47 Hillsboro Well-Known Member

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    That horse left the barn over a century ago.

    Already been done, in both California and New York, if I'm not mistaken.

    Seriously? You're pining for the days when states rights were trampled, and government power was even more centralized in the DC swamp? o_O

    Meanwhile, back here on Earth... :)

    Folks in Connecticut will just deal with this like they did their other recent bad law - ignore it. If cops attempt to arrest anyone for resorting to the black market to arm himself, after being denied through this no-fly list, then those cops should be killed. If on the other hand, people knuckle under to this recent attempt at tyranny, they deserve to be enslaved. It's put up or shut up time. I've had my fill of righteous indignation.
    Slobray likes this.