Confused about online vendors

[shockd]

Hi All,

I am confused why online vendors are reluctant or flatly refuse to send firearms with standard capacity mags box-labeling to WA UPON REMOVING the non-compliant magazine. From my understanding and after checking with local FFL's, provided the vendor removes say a 30-round non-compliant magazine, they are perfectly legal to send the corresponding rifle. I don't want to try and convince vendors of this stuff, I would rather just patronize the vendors who aren't arbitrarily refusing to send to WA. Does anyone know of such vendors or can otherwise share any insight on this issue? TIA

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[Member 53328]

Inventory turns into a mess.

Liability. What's to say you get a gun shipped with no mags and then use it for a criminal act with mags purchased elsewhere. You could turn around and say that you got the mags with the gun even though that's not the case. Playing "stupid/naive" and stating you had no knowledge of the new law. At which point the company/vendor who sold the gun have to prove their innocence.

It's a paperwork nightmare.

Just a couple ideas. I'm not a FFL though so I may be way off.

 

[Alexx1401]

Hi All,

I am confused why online vendors are reluctant or flatly refuse to send firearms with standard capacity mags box-labeling to WA UPON REMOVING the non-compliant magazine. From my understanding and after checking with local FFL's, provided the vendor removes say a 30-round non-compliant magazine, they are perfectly legal to send the corresponding rifle. I don't want to try and convince vendors of this stuff, I would rather just patronize the vendors who aren't arbitrarily refusing to send to WA. Does anyone know of such vendors or can otherwise share any insight on this issue? TIA

Are some actually refusing to send a gun to a local FFL here due to the mag? Never heard of that one. If so I guess just give your money to someone who wants it.

 

[RX-79G]

Vendors have been avoiding or sometimes boycotting states like CA or MA and now WA for creating new situations that might cause the dealer to lose money or be prosecuted.

I am sympathetic to dealers who don't want to become WA legal experts just to sell something.

 

[Alexx1401]

Vendors have been avoiding or sometimes boycotting states like CA or MA and now WA for creating new situations that might cause the dealer to lose money or be prosecuted.

I am sympathetic to dealers who don't want to become WA legal experts just to sell something.

Seems over the top strange to me. So some vendor does not want to send an AR to a dealer here with out the mag? Hey its their business they can run it any way they want but I must be missing something here.

 

[User 1234]

There are many online vendors who refuse to remove mags before shipping to mag ban states, and refuse to ship with the mags even if the Washington FFL would be taking them to sell to exempt customers.

There are also vendors who will. Atlantic Firearms is one. There is also the middleman FFL option.

 

[shockd]

Ya it's weird. If 2 points of contact Vendor/receiving ffl can confirm no mag, seems like a note reflecting that on the paperwork would check out, and even that unnecessary.

 

[Alexx1401]

Ya it's weird. If 2 points of contact Vendor/receiving ffl can confirm no mag, seems like a note reflecting that on the paperwork would check out, and even that unnecessary.

It looks like some are making a LOT bigger deal out of this than reality. WA is not the first state to come up with this grand plan on mags. That is why almost all guns made to take mags over 10, have a 10 option. To say that some FFL is going to sell joe blow an AR with a 10 round mag, that joe will then put a 30 in it, commit a crime, and say the FFL sold him the 30
Sure. This would work just as well as when joe is found to have made the AR rock and roll then claim the FFL sold it that way. Not going to happen.
As far as an FFL in WA taking in a gun and then permanently altering the mag to 10? While this sounds easy does anyone know any FFL's here offering this "service"? While it sounds "easy", it may only sound that way if no one is willing to do it.
So if anyone does find an FFL here willing to do this? By all means list them here. So anyone interested in using them can contact them and get a price to do this.

 

[RX-79G]

Importing 10+ round mags is illegal. It doesn't matter if it is going to an FFL who can divert it or modify it.

 

[Alexx1401]

Importing 10+ round mags is illegal. It doesn't matter if it is going to an FFL who can divert it or modify it.

Pretty sure the WA FFL's can still get the mags as they can still sell them to LEO's. I know it was in one of those video's the lawyer put out on this and IIRC, he said that. If the FFL's can still get them to sell that way they may well be able to get them to alter them. If any of the FFL's in WA start offering the service I guess we will find out for sure.

 

[RX-79G]

Pretty sure the WA FFL's can still get the mags as they can still sell them to LEO's. I know it was in one of those video's the lawyer put out on this and IIRC, he said that. If the FFL's can still get them to sell that way they may well be able to get them to alter them. If any of the FFL's in WA start offering the service I guess we will find out for sure.

I'm sure they can. But that doesn't change the fact that an FFL mailing them into WA is committing a crime unless the mags are ear-marked for LE.

 

[Alexx1401]

I'm sure they can. But that doesn't change the fact that an FFL mailing them into WA is committing a crime unless the mags are ear-marked for LE.

Are you sure this is how it works or are you guessing here? I am not a lawyer so make no claims. I know WA Gun law did a video on this. He does sound like he knows the new law. Did he say the mags for LEO's have to be marked now? Like they did during the great Clinton ban?

 

[Koda]

Are you sure this is how it works or are you guessing here? I am not a lawyer so make no claims. I know WA Gun law did a video on this. He does sound like he knows the new law. Did he say the mags for LEO's have to be marked now? Like they did during the great Clinton ban?

Speaking only for my own opinion, but if an FFL ships a gun even if they removed the "high cap" mags they still shipped a gun originally sold with high cap mags that the end user can still get illegally. In short, there is still some potential liability on the FFL shipping the gun to potentially have to prove they didnt import "high cap" mags.
This is why some gun manufacturers sell "compliant" guns to certain states.

 

[RX-79G]

Are you sure this is how it works or are you guessing here? I am not a lawyer so make no claims. I know WA Gun law did a video on this. He does sound like he knows the new law. Did he say the mags for LEO's have to be marked now? Like they did during the great Clinton ban?

The WA gun law guy appears to be something of an idiot.

"Ear marked" means ordered by or for, not a kind of marking on the mag. The law makes it illegal to order into the state or ship into the state - importing. For there to be an exception, you would have to be sending the mags with the understanding that they are going to only go to LE. Otherwise you imported them into the state without that exception in place, and that means you broke the law. The receiving FFL selling them to an FFL doesn't change the fact that you shipped them into the state without an exception in place.

 

[Alexx1401]

Speaking only for my own opinion, but if an FFL ships a gun even if they removed the "high cap" mags they still shipped a gun originally sold with high cap mags that the end user can still get illegally. In short, there is still some potential liability on the FFL shipping the gun to potentially have to prove they didnt import "high cap" mags.
This is why some gun manufacturers sell "compliant" guns to certain states.

Then how are they selling these guns in other states for YEARS now? Many seem to not be able to get their head around this is NOT something new. Its only new to this state. I have several PCC's that when I bought them they came with a 10 round Glock mag because the manufacturer sold them in all states. So which FFL's in places like CA have been charged for this so far? Surely there is lots of cases since many states have had the same mag law for years now?

 

[Alexx1401]

The WA gun law guy appears to be something of an idiot.

"

Well that tells me a LOT about you there.

 

[Alexx1401]

We "may" get a definitive answer on this. One of the Mods here is asking Joe about this. If he approves the idea we may seen see for sure from FFL's here how this will work in WA state.

 

[Koda]

Then how are they selling these guns in other states for YEARS now? Many seem to not be able to get their head around this is NOT something new. Its only new to this state. I have several PCC's that when I bought them they came with a 10 round Glock mag because the manufacturer sold them in all states. So which FFL's in places like CA have been charged for this so far? Surely there is lots of cases since many states have had the same mag law for years now?

I think you may have answered your own question, the mfgs simply sell them only with 10rd mags. The thing to remember here is when a mfg sells a gun that comes with magazines that constitutes a "packaged kit", in other words. To clarify, a mfg that still sells a gun sold with standard mags (to free states), that specific kit/gun is a separate/different part number from the guns they sell to a restricted state. The only difference between part numbers is one comes with standard mags, the other part number comes with compliant mags.

 

[Member 53328]

Then how are they selling these guns in other states for YEARS now? Many seem to not be able to get their head around this is NOT something new. Its only new to this state. I have several PCC's that when I bought them they came with a 10 round Glock mag because the manufacturer sold them in all states. So which FFL's in places like CA have been charged for this so far? Surely there is lots of cases since many states have had the same mag law for years now?

California has a gun roster. If the gun you want isn't on the roster then you're SOL. For example you could buy Gen 3 Glocks but not Gen 4 unless you had LE creds. I went through this when I was stationed down in cali. I bought a Gen 4 Glock with Creds but they wouldn't release the 17 round mags to me personally. They had to be shipped to the agency at which point I could take possession. This is of course just one example.

 

[RX-79G]

Well that tells me a LOT about you there.

Then you haven't read any of the threads with extensive discussion about the law that I and several others engaged in. The WA law guy says things that are not reflected in the way the law is written. And we all agree that he seems to be winging it.


And plenty of companies have figured out how to sell to various restricted states, and just as many have decided not to bother catering to them when there are plenty of other states that are easy, and where they run no risk of violating the law because a minimum wage employee in the shipping department forgot to take the mag out.