Concerns with Weatherby Vanguard S2

[Fat Jesus]

I bought a Weatherby Vanguard S2 Sub MOA model in .308 Win. This thing wont group for crap with my hand loads that i have worked up for my LR-308. The DPMS groups around 1" at 100yds with the ballistic tip ammo i load, and around 1.5-2" with the fmj plinkers. The Weatherby shoots the ballistic tips at best around 3" and the plinkers at 5" groups. WTF. I mean I understand different guns like different ammo, but damn, that much at 100 yds? Both are 24" barrels, the DPMS is 1:10 twist, the Weatherby is 1:12. The bullets are 150gr. Im just a bit confused I guees. I have bought 5-6 boxes of different .308 Win factory loads to test out the next time it is dry out.

OAL of the hand loads are between 2.793-2.798"
OAL of a Hornady superformance is 2.736-2.741"
OAL of a Hornady TAP FPD is 2.797-2.801"
OAL of a Winchester Supreme is 2.786-2.789"

Any thoughts?

I also bought 1 box of 168gr to see if maybe it doesnt like the light bullet?

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[mjbskwim]

My buddy's Savage was a tack driver with the cheap Remington loads and if he used the cheap Winchester loads it would shoot 4" groups,so yes there can be that much difference.

Check out the reload section,but I'm sure someone will have a favorite for their Vanguard for you.

 

[sneakboxer]

I spent a small fortune looking for factory ammo to shoot good in my 308 Ruger. I found 150gr Winchester BTs shot well for me. Then.... I started reloading and with a little work i have got 7 different bullets and weights to shoot less than 1MOA.
I'd recommend that you develop a load for the Vangaurd. I would be willing to bet you will find a combo sooner or later. Weatherby uses a long throat on their mags (i don't know if they do for standard chamberings) So a longer OAL might help.
Best of luck

 

[mjbskwim]

The Vanguard is manufactured by Howa,no?

 

[Fat Jesus]

The Vanguard is manufactured by Howa,no?

Pretty sure. My hand loads are as long or longer than all 7 factory loads I measured.

 

[Otter]

Every Weatherby in standard calibers I've shot had a really long throat. Do you have a tool to find the lands/rifling of the rifle? I've found that if you can get the bullets up to the lands or into the lands, a rifle will shoot more accurately. You can find the lands with a dummy round, but unless you have experience might not want to do that.

I've had three Weatherby Vanguard rifles and I've never shot any factory or handloads that would not hold 1 1/2 inch groups or smaller. With the right load all three of them will hold less than one inch. You might have gotten a lemon.

 

[Fat Jesus]

Well, I should know after Sunday. I'll get out and shoot these factory rounds and see what it does. If It still wont group, we'll see what weatherby has to say

 

[tomcat mv]

The preferred twist for .308 is 1:10. As far as your 1:12 twist, you may find that you will have worse groups with a heavier (longer) bullet. But if as others have stated that the Weatherby's have a longer throat, that may not be the case. Rule of thumb, heavier bullets are stabilized better with tighter twist. That's why the military went to 1:7 twist on the M-4 to better stabilize the 69 gr. 5.56 penetrator rounds.

 

[mjbskwim]

Well, I should know after Sunday. I'll get out and shoot these factory rounds and see what it does. If It still wont group, we'll see what weatherby has to say

Always have someone else try it out too.Sometimes we just do some little thing wrong and another person will see it instantly.
Just a thought
And good luck

BTW did you check the scope to make sure everything is tight?

 

[Fat Jesus]

ya, scope has been rechecked, and is tight

 

[Fat Jesus]

Ok so to report back. I dont know if it needed to break in or what. I threw 7 different types of rounds through it today. One is a 3000fps factory load, i got the barrel pretty hot with 5 consecutive shots of that. I let the gun cool off between groups, ran the bore snake through it between groups. So the only difference to the gun from last time is I put a limb saver barrel thing on it for bubblegums and giggles. My hand loads shot 1MOA like they do in my AR10. The 3000fps Hornady I shot a sub 1" group, The winner was the Hornady TAP 168gr, in which all 3 rounds were touching. All other loads were 150gr.

Hornady TAP 168gr sub .5" group
Hornady Superformance 150 gr sub 1" group
Hand load 150gr Nosler/Varget just over 1" group
Remington soft tip (green box) 150 gr just over 1" group
Winchester 150gr 2 different ones 1.5" group (might group better, these were shot before It started grouping tighter)
PPU 150 gr. 3" group (was first ammo shot, might group better)

So in all, I think it may have just needed to "break in" Seems it took about 40-50 rounds for it to tighten up.