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Concealed carry reciprocity back in Congress

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by U201491, Jan 16, 2014.

  1. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    MILLER: Gun rights reload in 2014, concealed carry reciprocity back in Congress - Washington Times

    http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2...arry-gun-reciprocity-2014-bill-senate/?page=2


    THIS is a bad thing. Keep the feds OUT of it. Keep it in the states hands and work to just get the states to cooperate with each other and you do that first in the ballot box !
    Elect people that observe and follow the US Constitution fully.
     
  2. simon99

    simon99 Central Oregon Well-Known Member

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    In the comments section of the article, I thought this conversation was an excellent response -


    Fat Freddy's Cat > 300grsmk
    • 11 hours ago
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    ⚑




    I wonder why a bill on reciprocity is necessary anyway. Wouldn't one state's refusal to honor another state's permit be a violation of the Full Faith and Credit clause of the Constitution? I'd have to research but I don't recall there being a federal law requiring states to honor each others' drivers licenses even though each state has different requirements for citizens seeking said license.



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    Richard > Fat Freddy's Cat
    • 10 hours ago








    What does "the Full Faith and Credit clause of the Constitution" (the federal government's borrowing authority) have to do with concealed-carry reciprocity? If you suggested the "equal protection clause" I would understand your point.

    A bill on reciprocity (or a modern-day acknowledgment that the right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED) is necessary because nearly half the states in this country do not recognize my 2nd Amendment right to carry a firearm for self-defense, and to date the congress and White House have failed in their responsibility to protect our constitutional rights.



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    Fat Freddy's Cat > Richard
    • 10 hours ago








    "Full faith and credit shall be given in each state to the public acts, records, and judicial proceedings of every other state."

    THAT is the Full Faith and Credit clause. Article IV, Section 1.



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    Richard > Fat Freddy's Cat
    • 10 hours ago








    I stand corrected, with this caveat: When people mention the full faith and credit clause, they are generally [mistakenly] referring to the 14th Amendment clause that states "the validity of the public deb...shall not be questioned." I didn't realize that someone with a scream-name 'Fat Freddy's Cat' would have any knowledge of the constitution.

    That said, with your assumed knowledge of the constitution, why would you question whether or not congressional action on the issue is necessary, given the government's failure to apply "the Full Faith and Credit clause of the Constitution" to reciprocity?

    At times, congress must make new laws "necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution...," including reciprocity laws applied to the 2nd Amendment.



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    Fat Freddy's Cat > Richard
    • 9 hours ago








    I mean to suggest that it shouldn't be necessary for Congress to make a law that simply repeats what the Constitution already says, i.e. "obey the Constitution". I realize that given the current state of things it seems to be the only way to get politicians to do what they swore an oath to do. But it's a fragile approach that can be undone by subsequent legislation, including fly-by-night amendments to unrelated laws.



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    Richard > Fat Freddy's Cat
    • 8 hours ago








    It also has the potential, if it became a national discussion, to empower those who have 'thrown up their arms' in frustration in states with strict gun-controls.



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    Fat Freddy's Cat > Richard
    • 8 hours ago








    I understand but it's a risky process. Politicians are a thoroughly untrustworthy lot.

    It's sad that such normal things have to be done in a Rube Goldberg fashion. Alas, being principled is derided as "extremist" nowadays and apparently in today's society that's absolutely the worst thing one can be.
     
  3. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately we have 9 traitors in black robes blocking the clear intent of the Constitution and BORs
     
  4. DMax

    DMax Yamhill Well-Known Member

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    Is that not the commerce clause use to get obammycare rammed up Americas assclowns:laugh:
     
  5. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    My concern with a national bill, is it will just create another huge database of gun owners.
    There are pros and cons to this.q
     
  6. simon99

    simon99 Central Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I think that's the 10A if I remember.....??
     
  7. Snowy Rivers

    Snowy Rivers oregon Active Member

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    Government anything stinks.

    This said, I believe that if my state of residence issue me a driver license, then it should be recognized by all, and it is.

    When my state issues me a CCW, then every other state in the union should recognize it as well.

    I am not a real proponent of the current system of having to carry a second card in my wallet, but would much rather see the CCW as a pistol shaped hologram on ones driver license.

    Many States CCW do not have a picture on them, and I prefer the picture ID concept.

    Having the CCW relegated to each county is just adding more bureaucracy and complexity to the mix.

    It should be handled by a dept within the DPSST and a standard permit issued.

    No matter if you live in X Y Z county, you get your permit from one agency.

    When you apply, you SHOULD be issued a new Driver license that has the little pistol icon hologram in it and off you go.

    NO NEED TO VISIT DMV either, the agencies can all access the database.

    This would make it simple.

    I drive across the country and I am covered, no matter where I am.

    Now as far as our good neighbors to the great white north, well, it's there back yard and they call the shots (no pun intended)

    Instead of each county having to process and issue CCW permits, it would all be handled through DPSST.

    You get your carry class, instruction or ??? and are issued a certificate by the trainer, fill out the application, get the finger prints, ID photo and mail the packet to DPSST and they do the rest.

    In about a month your new Driver license all pretty with the pistol hologram shows up in the mail.

    You cut up your old license and toss it in the trash.

    The renewal is based on your Driver license schedule and the renewal fee for the CCW would be added to the DL renewal and all done at once after the first go round.

    Currently, many counties do not send out renewal notices for the CCW, but they sure do for the DL

    This should also be renewable from your computer terminal.

    Login, enter your password, pay your fee and hit print, your receipt pops out of your printer and in a few weeks your new license/permit shows up in the mail.

    Stop the need to go to a state office and sit with a number tag, all the while daylight is burning, and state workers fiddle around taking their sweet time.

    The entire process of renewal could be handled from your smart phone if need be.

    Gawd I love technology.

    Snowy
     
  8. ZigZagZeke

    ZigZagZeke Eugene Silver Supporter Silver Supporter 2015 Volunteer

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    My concern is that this could be a trojan horse. In order to "respect" the sensibilities of states like NJ and NY they might argue that they need to make the national standard requirements more comprehensive, like requiring a "reason" for a CCW permit, or require range training (say $1500 worth), or do away with "shall issue" and "constitutional carry". I see it as a way that the federal government might acquire leverage to impose standards on the states. Let's be very careful with this.
     
  9. PiratePast40

    PiratePast40 Willamette Valley Well-Known Member

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    I don't need another federal agency adding me to their database. Nor do I need approval from the governor of New Jersey, New York, or California to carry in my home state. My opinion is that reciprocity is a ruse. Only adds to the data base and registration issue. No thanks.
     
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  10. bnsaibum

    bnsaibum Corvallis, OR Well-Known Member 2015 Volunteer

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    Absolutely NO reciprocity at the federal level. Zeke and Pirate nailed it. There is a slight possibility that it could do some good in the short term, but there is a very high probability that it can and will be used as a Trojan Horse later.
     
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  11. Snowy Rivers

    Snowy Rivers oregon Active Member

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    Anything with the current administration is to be held in suspect for sure.

    I don't want a federal CCW, ONLY complete reciprocity just like my driver license.

    If the feds want to do something, pass a bill that requires all states to honor any permits.

    The permit requirements need to remain with the states.

    It needs to be up to the person then, to respect any special requirements of the states they travel through.

    Sadly, each little "kingdom" wants their own rules.

    If you want to worry about Govmnt, worry about the huge database they already have of your cell phone conversations, emails, social media posts, text mssg's and so on.

    WE are being spied on each and every day.

    It won't be long and night light in your bedroom will have HIDDEN camera that reports to Washington :paranoid:

    Each and every one of us gun owns especially are on the radar, yeah buddy.

    Rest assured, there are no GOOD gun laws being introduced in Washington, at least none that does not need to be carefully scrutinized.
     
  12. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    HEY, NSA!!!! :wave:
     
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  13. oknow

    oknow amboy wa. Well-Known Member

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    A ccw permit for each state is just a $ maker for said state.
     
  14. Snowy Rivers

    Snowy Rivers oregon Active Member

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    THAT'S A NO BRAINER

    In Oregon, it's a money maker for each county.

    No matter how you do it, $$$$$$$$$$$ are going to enter the picture.

    The initial concept of "Shall issue" was good.

    I have had my CCW since the law went in back in the late 80's
    There is always going to be the issue of some entity administering the process no mater what.

    It takes time and resources to make it work properly, and this takes $$$$$
     
  15. oknow

    oknow amboy wa. Well-Known Member

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    It doesn't cost a different state a dime if I have a ccw from Wa.
     
  16. PiratePast40

    PiratePast40 Willamette Valley Well-Known Member

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    Don't forget the bill that Floyd Pozanski tried to push through last year. He wanted the Texas CCW marksmanship qualifications as a part of the Oregon CHL. When pressed as to why he thought it was a good idea, Floyd is on the record as saying that he lived in Texas so their example must be good.

    There were zero legitimate arguments as to how this new requirement would have a positive impact on public health and safety in Oregon. One more time, it has nothing to do with guns, it's about control.
     
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  17. Snowy Rivers

    Snowy Rivers oregon Active Member

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    The cost is to the original state to process the paperwork, do the background check and print the Permit

    Having some hands on qualification ids a good thing.

    I do not believe it's needed to go beyond some basic gun handling and a minimal live fire qualification.

    This requirement is why many states do not accept Oregon's permit.

    Sadly there are a lot of folks out there that have a carry permit, and possess very little, if any good gun handling skills.

    My first question before starting a class, is, what are your pistol handling experience ?????

    If the student says AHHHHHH, NONE we stop right there.

    Time for training, and then think about a concealed carry.

    Just because we have a right to possess and carry does not give us the right to do so without the proper knowledge and training.

    IT'S AMAZING how many folks that carry, don't have a clue about what they can and can't do legally.

    Then the VICE Prez says on national TV just blast the shotgun out the back door.

    Ahhhhhhh, what part of stupid is that ????

    It's up to us as professionals to set a very top mark example for others to follow.

    I have sat in on a couple CCW courses that would either get you killed or tossed in jail.

    Sadly this crap is out there, and people are charging $$$$$ for it.

    Snowy
     
  18. oknow

    oknow amboy wa. Well-Known Member

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    But the question is about a ccw license (which I don't think should be mandatory) is why isn't it like a drivers license issued in one state but good in all states. As far a training goes yes you should get it but that falls under personal responsibility. You screw up you pay the price.
     
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  19. The Heretic

    The Heretic Oregon Well-Known Member

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    To address the issues "Fat Freddy's Cat" raise.

    Such laws are necessary because many laws in place, and enforced, violate and infringe on our constitutional rights - among them, almost every "gun control" law, laws on drug possession, laws prohibiting marriage of any consenting adult to any other consenting adult (including any adult that wants to marry more than one other partner) and so on.

    In an ideal world, we would not need laws to recognize our rights - i.e., they would indeed be unnecessary, and they should be.

    But this is the real world and unfortunately almost everybody and their dogs wants to run other peoples private lives. *THAT* is why such laws are necessary - because we are all idiots.
     
  20. deen_ad

    deen_ad Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    That is ONLY because the states have all signed a pact recognizing other states drivers licenses, there is no Federal Law requiring it.


    Deen
    NRA Life Member, Benefactor Level
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    "Having a gun is like a parachute, if you need one and don't have it you may never need it again"
     
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