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Are you an attorney? Can you cite case law on your bold claims or are those just your feelings....


.
I don't have to be an attorney. I've sat on a few juries. Your intake of any alcohol in proximity to using your CCW *WILL* be an issue in court and in the jury room. Just don't.
 
Wow, do you happen to know why this is?
Because the people that run this state .
Say it is illegal to buy insurance that will cover you when you commit a crime.
YOU HAVEN'T HEARD USING A GUN TO DEFEND YOURSELF IS A CRIME IN WASHINGTON.
According to Jay and Bob.
 
Because the people that run this state .
Say it is illegal to buy insurance that will cover you when you commit a crime.
YOU HAVEN'T HEARD USING A GUN TO DEFEND YOURSELF IS A CRIME IN WASHINGTON.
According to Jay and Bob.

Unfortunately I think this will be the new norm everywhere, with how things are going. I kept having dreams of when I retire moving to a free state like Idaho Montana or Wyoming. I think by the time I retire (at least another 25 years) this whole country will be California.
 
Because the people that run this state .
Say it is illegal to buy insurance that will cover you when you commit a crime.
YOU HAVEN'T HEARD USING A GUN TO DEFEND YOURSELF IS A CRIME IN WASHINGTON.
According to Jay and Bob.
There are two reasons. First no insurance company is going to insure anybody for liability arising from the person's intentional criminal acts. This should be common sense. Furthermore, doing so would be against public policy. Next, to sell insurance in a state, the insurance company generally needs to be authorized to do so. Where it gets tricky, is paying for legal services for a person who has been charged with the commission of an intentional crime. We will not know if the person committed an intentional crime until the trial is over and the legal fees and costs have already been incurred. Keep in mind, if you claim self defense you are admitting that you did the act charged. The only question will be if that act was criminal or not.
Consider the following. Person A has a loaded rifle which he points at B's head. B is well within the range of A's rifle. A, taking careful aim, pulls the trigger shooting B in the head, killing B. What crime, if any, has been committed? The answer is that there are simply not enough facts to tell. If I tell you that A is a SWAT team member and B has a knife to V's throat and is threatening and is about to unlawfully slit V's throat, you should concluded that A has not committed any crime and is perhaps a hero. This is so, even though my original set of facts remain exactly the same. If I tell you that A and B are neighbors and that A shot B because he did not like the Trump sign in B's front yard, out come should be different.
 
Big news. I am in my 70's and finally decided that I am old enough to own a gun. So I invested in two. An 870 and a P365. I have yet to shoot either as the most logical next step is insurance. My question to USCCA was an explanation of lawyers fees, court costs and personal liability - should I actually ever pull the trigger on an intruder. Their explanations were rather cursory and I'm not sure the conversation left me with a clear understanding.

Any comment on the liability part of the insurance vs the lawyers and court costs?

Thanks, DR
 
I have yet to shoot either as the most logical next step is insurance.
Respectfully, your next steps should be safety, training, shooting, understanding self defense law and becoming familiar with the firearms. Because without these, the insurance may be basically useless. Paying for your defense (attorney fees, bail, expert witnesses etc.) is what helps you avoid liability...both criminal and civil. But if you are negligent in your actions then the best attorneys in the world will be of little help to you. Companies like USCCA and ACLDN have training as a component of their services.

Hope this helps some. There are plenty of good resources on this site as well.
 
Every brand of concealed carry insurance I have looked into can drop a member for any reason at anytime. This isn't what I'm looking for in my choice for personal coverage
They can drop you from any policy. The things you need to do are
A: get training. A good class will cover a lot of the do's and don'ts of gun ownership as well as teaching you the basics of safety and marksmanship.
AND
B; Read the laws of your state regarding the defensive or other uses of your firearm. There are a variety of books on the gun laws of various states, including CO
to wit: https://www.amazon.com/Arizona-Gun-...ywords=Gun+laws+arizona&qid=1610950663&sr=8-3

Read up!
 
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They can drop you from any policy. The things you need to do are
A: get training. A good class will cover a lot of the do's and don'ts of gun ownership as well as teaching you the basics of safety and marksmanship.
AND
B; Read the laws of your state regarding the defensive or other uses of your firearm. There are a variety of books on the gun laws of various states, including CO
to wit: https://www.amazon.com/Colorado-Gun...irearm+laws+of+colorado&qid=1610948466&sr=8-1

Read up!


If my liability, auto, home & health insurance can drop me at anytime, they sure haven't ever said so--not true with concealed carry policies...
 
If my liability, auto, home & health insurance can drop me at anytime, they sure haven't ever said so--not true with concealed carry policies...
You just have to screw up. Wreck your car with alcohol in your system, even if you're not legally drunk
Have your house burn down with evidence of improperly stored combustibles
If they don't drop you, they raise your rates so high you cannot afford them and you drop them. Either way they are shed of you.
Those are the same types of conditions for USCCA et al for dropping you, i.e. You screwed up! You shot a guy that wasn't a threat.
A legal, clean shoot still may incur court costs, particularly if the DA is an antigun prick. USCCA will defend your case in those situations because they can generally get you off and that makes for great advertising for them, but you shoot a kid for trespassing in your yard and you're on your own. USCCA and the rest are not "Murder insurance" regardless of what Sideshow Bob Ferguson (WA State AG) says.
And regardless of what insurance can and cannot do, You need to get trained and learn the laws for yourself. Those skills and knowledge sets will save you a lot of up front problems if you take them to heart.
 
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You just have to screw up. Wreck your car with alcohol in your system, even if you're not drunk
Have your house burn down with evidence of improperly stored combustibles
If they don't drop you, they raise your rates so high you cannot afford them and you drop them. Either way they are shed of you.
Those are the same types of conditions for USCCA et al for dropping you, i.e. You screwed up! You shot a guy that wasn't a threat.
A legal, clean shoot still may incur court costs, particularly if the DA is an antigun prick. USCCA will defend your case in those situations because they can generally get you off and that makes for great advertising for them, but you shoot a kid for trespassing in your yard and you're on your own. USCCA and the rest are not "Murder insurance" regardless of what Sideshow Bob Ferguson says.
And regardless of what insurance can and cannot do, You need to get trained and learn the laws for yourself. Those skills and knowledge sets will save you a lot of up front problems if you take them to heart.


I have wrecked my vehicles plenty of times & while the auto insurance people have raised my rates and even dropped me after a dui, they have never done so without repairing my vehicle first. Not so with the concealed carry insurance folks
 
I have wrecked my vehicles plenty of times & while the auto insurance people have raised my rates and even dropped me after a dui, they have never done so without repairing my vehicle first. Not so with the concealed carry insurance folks
OK
I wonder if they would repair your vehicle if you killed someone
(That is a serious question, btw)
 
Big news. I am in my 70's and finally decided that I am old enough to own a gun. So I invested in two. An 870 and a P365. I have yet to shoot either as the most logical next step is insurance. My question to USCCA was an explanation of lawyers fees, court costs and personal liability - should I actually ever pull the trigger on an intruder. Their explanations were rather cursory and I'm not sure the conversation left me with a clear understanding.

Any comment on the liability part of the insurance vs the lawyers and court costs?

Thanks, DR
As others have stated. The first thing is to get some training. Safety is paramount and you need to know, understand and practice all of the safety protocols in handling firearms. They are not difficult. All guns are loaded until you have personally determined otherwise. Never point a firearm at a person or object you do not intend to shoot. Keep your finger off of the trigger until you are ready to fire. Next, you need to understand the law of self defense in your state and any state where you may be carrying. I suggest Andrew Branca's website lawofselfdefense.com. To me, his memberships are a little pricey. However, he does offer some free stuff and he is probably the leading authority on self defense law in the US. He offers a DVD on self defense law in the US with supplements for the individual states. These are reasonably priced in my opinion. I have both the general law and Idaho supplement. I should probably get the supplements for WA and OR where I have carry permits. Next, you will need to practice, if you can find the ammo to do so. Most, if not all, of the so called self defense insurance programs are aimed or directed at those who are carrying in public, where the likelihood of being involved in a self defense incident is greater. Personally, I have CCWSafe, because I found it to be the best fit for me. I would not call it an insurance policy but a membership in and organization that includes prepaid attorney fees for its members if they are involved in a self defense incident. I wish you well and welcome you to those of us who have accepted the responsibility of protecting ourselves and our families. May you never have to use your firearms in defense of your self or others. But if you are forced to, be the victor because you are trained and prepared.
 
All I can say about USCCA is one month in between jobs they worked with me on payment. Also the coverage per tier is now even. The new member offer of free ammo makes me jealous for a new signup. Not endorsing any company just going off experience.
 
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As others have stated. The first thing is to get some training. Safety is paramount and you need to know, understand and practice all of the safety protocols in handling firearms. They are not difficult. All guns are loaded until you have personally determined otherwise. Never point a firearm at a person or object you do not intend to shoot. Keep your finger off of the trigger until you are ready to fire. Next, you need to understand the law of self defense in your state and any state where you may be carrying. I suggest Andrew Branca's website lawofselfdefense.com. To me, his memberships are a little pricey. However, he does offer some free stuff and he is probably the leading authority on self defense law in the US. He offers a DVD on self defense law in the US with supplements for the individual states. These are reasonably priced in my opinion. I have both the general law and Idaho supplement. I should probably get the supplements for WA and OR where I have carry permits. Next, you will need to practice, if you can find the ammo to do so. Most, if not all, of the so called self defense insurance programs are aimed or directed at those who are carrying in public, where the likelihood of being involved in a self defense incident is greater. Personally, I have CCWSafe, because I found it to be the best fit for me. I would not call it an insurance policy but a membership in and organization that includes prepaid attorney fees for its members if they are involved in a self defense incident. I wish you well and welcome you to those of us who have accepted the responsibility of protecting ourselves and our families. May you never have to use your firearms in defense of your self or others. But if you are forced to, be the victor because you are trained and prepared.
Thank you for your response. I will get trained and insured. Be well.
 
that is troubling language about impairment. I camp a lot. And carry. And drink. So I'm not in my home, but am in my place of 'residence' while camping. It seems arbitrary that they wouldn't provide the services paid for if they cannot even define impairment.
 

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