Conceal carry into a private residence?

[KENOC]

Not quite. That's a total straw argument. Wearing black underwear is in no way akin to carrying a firearm. What people are objecting to is a type of conduct in their home that realistically could be turned against them if the person carrying the firearm has a bad day. When Jeffrey A. Grahn a Sergeant with the Clackamas County Sheriff's Department decided to go off recently, he was off-duty and carrying concealed. He had all the training and screening to suggest that he could be trusted and yet ultimately he violated that trust. If someone has made the decision not to allow armed individuals in their home, we are free to disagree but we should have the integrity to respect the person's right to choose who and what he will allow in his home.



There's a difference between not asking, not advertising, and intentionally ignoring someone's request not to enter his home armed. It may have nothing to do with trust. And honestly, if you cannot agree to someone's terms without lying, why should anyone trust you?

The black underwear is no more a 'straw' analogy than your smoking analogy...
The deputy analogy is a straw one as well then. It is the person who killed, not the gun. What if he had no gun, but was a 7th degree black belt or whatever and killed everyone with his deadly hands. Or pocket-knife....or ballpoint pen..or whatever.
I would not lie though, if asked. I have never had someone ask me if I was armed before entering their home. If they did ask, i would simply tell them if it is a concern, then I will respect that concern and not ever enter their home.
I don't know why someone would ask me that, unless they are in habit of asking everyone that, as nobody knows I carry, other than my family and others who carry, none of whom ever have a problem with others who carry.
An anti-gun person would never know i carry, hence would never ask, unless they ask EVERYONE.
In any case I guess we each have to do what we feel is best. But again, i will not go ANYWHERE unarmed, unless it is a illegal to do so.

 

[phathom]

Not quite. That's a total straw argument. Wearing black underwear is in no way akin to carrying a firearm. What people are objecting to is a type of conduct in their home that realistically could be turned against them if the person carrying the firearm has a bad day. When Jeffrey A. Grahn a Sergeant with the Clackamas County Sheriff's Department decided to go off recently, he was off-duty and carrying concealed. He had all the training and screening to suggest that he could be trusted and yet ultimately he violated that trust. If someone has made the decision not to allow armed individuals in their home, we are free to disagree but we should have the integrity to respect the person's right to choose who and what he will allow in his home.

Carrying concealed is like the black underwear argument as in no one needs to know if you are wearing them or carrying concealed.
BTW: Had they posted a sign saying no firearms because they decided they didn't want them there. Do you think that would have prevented him from doing what he did? Absolutely not.

There's a difference between not asking, not advertising, and intentionally ignoring someone's request not to enter his home armed. It may have nothing to do with trust. And honestly, if you cannot agree to someone's terms without lying, why should anyone trust you?

This is true, there is a huge difference of that. The "Don't ask, don't tell policy" is completely different then the "F you, I don't care what you said, I'm doing it anyway" attitude.

If someone requests you not to enter armed, you should honor that either by leaving your piece elsewhere or not entering, however if they say nothing to that effect, I say it's fair game. If it does come up that you have been carrying and they ask you not to in their home from then on, then I believe you should honor that as well.

 

[pokobt]

I have carried only for a couple of years but live by the "don't ask, don't tell" as well. As for someone coming into my home and me knowing if they carry; no one would ever be coming into my house unless I knew them well enough to know such a thing. Concealed is concealed in my opinion; no one ever knows but me and my wife (and she only knows if sees me holstering the item); again- it is concealed.

 

[Onebigelf]

I also don't ask people if they are ok with me carrying my wallet, or wearing my watch, or ...

John

 

[Outrider]

The black underwear is no more a 'straw' analogy than your smoking analogy...

Hardly. The smoking analogy is useful because that is something familiar. There are many places including homes of private individuals where smoking is not welcome or allowed by the person who controls the premises. You know it and you also know if you want to smoke you are going to have to do it outside or not even bother going. Your black underwear analogy is something outside of what people commonly encounter.

The deputy analogy is a straw one as well then. It is the person who killed, not the gun.

Earlier you had mentioned this was a matter of trust. The deputy was an example of a trusted individual who decided to do something bad. You are missing the point. An individual may not want an armed person in their home because they do not want firearms in their home. It is not about training and perceived trustworthiness. It is that a person may not want a guest with ready access to a firearm and be physically capable of doing what Grahn did the instant he gets upset.

Life is uncertain. Some people try to hedge their bets by carrying everywhere possible. And some hedge their bets by trying to keep weapons out of their spaces and homes. The argument is not about which strategy is better. We're both pro-gun. The discussion, in part, is about what you do when you encounter someone who knows you are carrying and does not want you to do it in their home.

I would not lie though, if asked. I have never had someone ask me if I was armed before entering their home. If they did ask, i would simply tell them if it is a concern, then I will respect that concern and not ever enter their home.

I don't know why someone would ask me that, unless they are in habit of asking everyone that, as nobody knows I carry, other than my family and others who carry, none of whom ever have a problem with others who carry.
An anti-gun person would never know i carry, hence would never ask, unless they ask EVERYONE.
In any case I guess we each have to do what we feel is best. But again, i will not go ANYWHERE unarmed, unless it is a illegal to do so.

You are forgetting that people talk. Friends and family have a way of letting things they know about you slip. It is not malicious, it just happens. A friend or family member may mention that you like shooting to someone and that person may discuss it with you. Before you know it, they know you have a gun and they blab it to everyone in your social circle. It does not have to be someone interrogating every guest.

 

[scharmon]

"Dont ask dont tell" I believe that some get uncomfortable when told that I am carrying so I simply save them that discomfort in my eyes.

 

[SSG]

Having sold lot's stuff over the years out of my home....we came to the realization that strangers are let in, stay in, and go out, thru the garage...it's cold, everyone is standing, and my wife/son are behind a fireproof locked garage door...so peeps with guns, knifes, bad intentions, etc, never got inside to begin with....

If you get into my home, your trusted, so if make that status, doesn't matter, if you have a gun or not...

 

[deen_ad]

I don't ask and I don't tell. Works for me.

 

[U201494]

It is MY house and I decide who carries a weapon in my house. If I do not know you, leave the gun else where. If you are my friend you already know it is OK to carry the loaded gun in my home.
Out of respect I leave it in the vehicle if I must enter a home of a casual acquaintance in a social situation. I know which friend's houses I can and can't enter with a firearm. Let's say I do not know you, and your spouse or significant other and yourself get invited to my home by my spouse for a social get together of some sort. If I catch you with a gun I will be pissed, then cause a scene, and then throw your nasty *** out.
Just my cut at it. Your home, your rules, in my home it's my rules.

 

[U201494]

I also don't ask people if they are ok with me carrying my wallet, or wearing my watch, or ...

John

Sure. How many people where killed with wallets or watches last week, or ever for that matter? Lame.
What if your co-worker has AIDS and does not tell you, then comes to your home for dinner or just a social gathering. Would that be cool? Can they eat off your plates and drink from your cups and use your toilet? I'll bet AIDS will kill you just as dead as a gun, but hey, don't ask, don't tell.

 

[ZachS]

Sure. How many people where killed with wallets or watches last week, or ever for that matter? Lame.
What if your co-worker has AIDS and does not tell you, then comes to your home for dinner or just a social gathering. Would that be cool? Can they eat off your plates and drink from your cups and use your toilet? I'll bet AIDS will kill you just as dead as a gun, but hey, don't ask, don't tell.

You can't get AIDS like that any more than you can get killed by a holstered and concealed firearm. I agree with your side of the debate, but please don't use such ridiculous comparisons.

 

[Woody]

we should have the integrity to respect the person's right to choose who and what he will allow in his home.

If you can't respect anothers right, why would they respect yours!

 

[Scott]

It is only being polite and proper to go into someones home and ask if it is ok to bring a gun in. Some ones home is not your property and you have no say if or can or cannot carry in there house. If anything did happen the person who owns the home is responsible not the idiot carrying the gun. Don't say it won't happen to me just look at how many accidents there are. Theres nothing wrong with asking and some people who have a concealed permits feel they are entitled to carry anywhere they choose and it's their right well that is a myth. It's just called common courtesy when entering other peoples property or abode. I know people will disagree but that is the way it is.

 

[Outrider]

If you can't respect anothers right, why would they respect yours!

You are starting from the premise that the other person is interfering with your right and he is not. You have no right to go into the home of another armed or otherwise. The other person chooses to invite you. That invitation is subject to certain terms. Some of the terms are obvious, i.e. "Don't steal from me while you're in my home." and "Don't do physical damage to my home." Some are less obvious, i.e. "Don't smoke inside my home." or "Don't bring your dogs."

Each person is different and the rules are different. Some people allow firearms in their homes and some do not. If they let you know that they don't want you to do X in their home and you don't want to abide by those terms, don't go.

Thinking you have a right to be in the home of another and a right to do whatever you want while there is ridiculous.

 

[KENOC]

It is only being polite and proper to go into someones home and ask if it is ok to bring a gun in. Some ones home is not your property and you have no say if or can or cannot carry in there house. If anything did happen the person who owns the home is responsible not the idiot carrying the gun. Don't say it won't happen to me just look at how many accidents there are. Theres nothing wrong with asking and some people who have a concealed permits feel they are entitled to carry anywhere they choose and it's their right well that is a myth. It's just called common courtesy when entering other peoples property or abode. I know people will disagree but that is the way it is.

You have got to be joking. You really ASK someone if it is ok? DO you also ask everyone else you come into contact with? On the bus, every store, every movie theatre...?
Do you ask everyone before you enter their home if it is ok to have your pocket knife in your pocket? Your pepper spray? Would you tell everyone you are a black belt (if you were) and could easily kill them?
It is absurd in my mind to ASK others if it is ok to practice your 2nd amendment rights and your right to protect yourself. We have become a nation of pansies if we think we need to ask permission of others... If i KNEW ahead of time their feelings....or they had a sign posted, that is another story. Otherwise it is nobody's business what I conceal upon my personal body.

 

[Scott]

You have got to be joking. You really ASK someone if it is ok? DO you also ask everyone else you come into contact with? On the bus, every store, every movie theatre...?
Do you ask everyone before you enter their home if it is ok to have your pocket knife in your pocket? Your pepper spray? Would you tell everyone you are a black belt (if you were) and could easily kill them?
It is absurd in my mind to ASK others if it is ok to practice your 2nd amendment rights and your right to protect yourself. We have become a nation of pansies if we think we need to ask permission of others... If i KNEW ahead of time their feelings....or they had a sign posted, that is another story. Otherwise it is nobody's business what I conceal upon my personal body.

First I was just talking about someones home and not public places. Do you go to the gun show and them to kiss off when they ask if you have a gun? Do you do the same if you go to a federal building? I doubt it and I bet you hand your gun over and have it zipped tied like everybody else. If you shop at Keiths do you just ignore his sign about loaded firearms? You do not have the right to go anywhere you please because you think so. You are right about it is nobody's business what you conceal on your body but when you step on private property that is no longer the case and need to respect the property owner and their wishes. If you don't oh well but that says a lot.

 

[CharlesAFerg]

[If] I had an "acquaintance" (girlfriends friend?) and they: 1) knew I carried (If I was stupid enough to tell them?)... and didn't want me there with my weapon... I probably wouldn't go there! 2) If they are refusing me my right to self defense and protection.... I wouldn't go there! 3) If I didn't like the person and they didn't like me.... I wouldn't go there! Hmmm, do I detect a pattern here?
It was said "I don't know how I would feel about someone in my house carrying...." How would I know unless they told me? AND.... I want my true friends to be armed for their own safety AND I might need their help!
Just my 2cents.
SR

I hate to say it, but that's ignoring the many places you'd still need to go, where if people knew, they would despise you for it. If everybody approved of carrying, things would be a lot simpler, wouldn't they?

I have been many places where people wouldn't want weapons, but they didn't know. The fact of the matter is, this is Portland, it's not a firearm friendly place. (Even if it wasn't such a firearm hostile place, this is the real world. You would still know that some people are hostile to carriers.)

 

[phathom]

You are right about it is nobody's business what you conceal on your body but when you step on private property that is no longer the case and need to respect the property owner and their wishes. If you don't oh well but that says a lot.

Yes, respect their wishes. If it is known that it is their wishes, they have a sign, their negative opinion on firearms and they don't want them around them or in their home is known, they tell you about it, etc. Then yes, respect their wishes.
However if none of this is made known to you, it doesn't need to be known to them unless you want them to know.

Some people are racist, if you are another race other than what you look (for example, I look completely white, but am half white, half hispanic), do you go around telling people when they don't need to know and face potential discrimination? No. If your proud of it and don't care, that's another thing. If it's known that someone doesn't like your race and doesn't want that race in their house (even though they don't know you are), you probably would avoid them anyway.

I look at it the same way, it's a prejudice some people have against other people, the only difference here, is one of them is a choice, the other is not. It's all a matter of that person and how you choose to deal with the situation. Even if you know they are against them, if nothing is said to you to the extent of, "I don't want this in my house" then I say it's fair game.

For instance, my sister doesn't mind guns, my parents got my nephew a BB gun for his birthday this year, my sister doesn't care that if he shoots, but she doesn't want him to keep it at her house. She doesn't mind if me, or any of their friends carry and have one on them in her house. She just doesn't believe in owning them, but doesn't have a problem with other people having them and being over there. She is antigun, and will say what her family does or doesn't do relating to them, but isn't going to force that on others.

 

[U201494]

You can't get AIDS like that any more than you can get killed by a holstered and concealed firearm. I agree with your side of the debate, but please don't use such ridiculous comparisons.

ZachS - sorry dude, you are wrong - on both points. It's thinking exactly like that gets people killed by both.

 

[phathom]

ZachS - sorry dude, you are wrong - on both points. It's thinking exactly like that gets people killed by both.

No, he's actually pretty right, well at least 1.5 out of 2 right. First:

You can only get HIV from blood, semen, vaginal fluids, and breast milk. So unless he has really bad gingivitis and is bleeding from the mouth, eating and drinking off your stuff won't do anything. In that case, it would be obvious and addressable.
Unless he/she is pleasuring themselves in the bathroom and leaving their juices behind on your toilet seat, and then you take those and put them inside you, orally or otherwise, you won't get it that way.
And I really won't go into the obvious way of breast milk from your friends. That's just a disturbing thought, but hey what you and your friends do after dinner is your business right?

Also a firearm cannot go off unless the firing pin or hammer is actuated, this generally cannot happen in a holstered firearm, but there are excruciating circumstances, such as carry cocked and locked with safety off and no hammer block in the way, and the hammer getting bumped in such a way it falls and hits the primer. Or if something penetrated the holster enough to get in the trigger and pull it. But typically a holstered firearm does not go off by itself, even in those circumstances, there are outside forces at play to make it go off.