compact 1911, yay or nay?

[U201494]

I dig compact 1911s and always have a couple on hand. I understand all of the "The 1911 was designed to function with blah blah, slide, blah, blablah spring, blah blah weight." etc. I've just never had a 3" or 3.5" or 3.6" or 4" or 4.25" that didn't work great and I've owned Colts, Kimbers, RIA, Citadel, and Para.
There are a lot of mechanical devices that are designed to function a certain way, and people being people will always modify them to fit other wants / needs. Everything from engines to staple guns gets this treatment and through patients and perseverance we end up with a fully functional, yet radically different version of the original. It's how this country has progressed and the 1911 is not exempt. People have made it work quite well in abbreviated forms. Yes, I know the master custom and race gun builders won't touch the short 1911s, but who cares, you can get them from a lot of other vendors for a lot less dinero.
In the last 3 years or so, I have purchased 5 new Kimber 1911s, (3) Ultra size (2 stnlss, 1 blue), (2) Pro size - both stainless, and (1) Blue Custom size. Maybe I got lucky on all 5 but I never had an issue with any of them. Shot most of them 50 to 200 rounds per week and traded or sold them somewhere in the 1,000 round range.
Then again, I can't seem to get an F150 truck that's worth a pinch of dung, yet the rest of the world uses them and loves 'em.

 

[cyclesurvival]

I recently did a trade for a Springfield micro 45, its small and fits my hand good (small hands). Although I was hesitant to do the trade due to rumors about not functioning. I like the feel and did the trade. When I got the time I took it out and was I pleasantly surprised at how well it shot and functioned with different types of ammo. ITS A KEEPER something else will go before it does. just my 2 cents.

 

[swoop]

I dig compact 1911s and always have a couple on hand. I understand all of the "The 1911 was designed to function with blah blah, slide, blah, blablah spring, blah blah weight." etc. I've just never had a 3" or 3.5" or 3.6" or 4" or 4.25" that didn't work great and I've owned Colts, Kimbers, RIA, Citadel, and Para.
There are a lot of mechanical devices that are designed to function a certain way, and people being people will always modify them to fit other wants / needs. Everything from engines to staple guns gets this treatment and through patients and perseverance we end up with a fully functional, yet radically different version of the original. It's how this country has progressed and the 1911 is not exempt. People have made it work quite well in abbreviated forms. Yes, I know the master custom and race gun builders won't touch the short 1911s, but who cares, you can get them from a lot of other vendors for a lot less dinero.
In the last 3 years or so, I have purchased 5 new Kimber 1911s, (3) Ultra size (2 stnlss, 1 blue), (2) Pro size - both stainless, and (1) Blue Custom size. Maybe I got lucky on all 5 but I never had an issue with any of them. Shot most of them 50 to 200 rounds per week and traded or sold them somewhere in the 1,000 round range.
Then again, I can't seem to get an F150 truck that's worth a pinch of dung, yet the rest of the world uses them and loves 'em.

Better get a Chevy Z71 to go with that Vette...Problem solved..

 

[swoop]

I would say yay to the 1911 compact for carry if you have a full size for heavy practice. My Colt defender comes along every time I go to the range, but only run a few mags of carry ammo through it to stay sharp. The Gold Cup Trophy gets the brunt of the punishment and seems to love it. The defender packs easy at 23 ozs. " you'll want to ad some vz grips though" and has been dependable for me so far...about a year and half and 800 + rds. fired. If a SR9 is to big and a G26 to fat for ya, you're gonna need a single stack. If it doesn't have to be a 1911 then as someone said earlier, check out the Kahr pm9. I carry one in a IWB m-tac holster as a mall gun...Never been asked to leave yet.

 

[U201494]

Better get a Chevy Z71 to go with that Vette...Problem solved..

Sage advise!
and
the Gold Cup is the one 1911 I'll never part with.

 

[22many]

The thing about chopped 1911's that makes them less desirable, is the fact when you reduce the mass of the slide you have to make it up in some other way to get reliable functioning. The only way to do this is to greatly increase the slide velocity. Just like in bullets speed compensates for mass.....somewhat. This greatly increases wear and tear on the weapon. These guns quite literally beat themselves to death. In spite of this many of the mini 1911's do not function reliably. If you have one that does, count your blessings because many don't.

It is important to remember the Mini Glocks are not afflicted with this problem, and run just as reliably as their full sized counterparts. They are a much better choice for self defense and CCW in that regard. Not to mention they cost half as much, and easily last twice as long, if not longer. They are simply a much better choice all the way around.

The 1911 is a good design, in it's original intended size. But chopping these things down in a race to see who can make the smallest one, does not result in a pistol you would want to stake your life on. No matter how you look at it, it's a bet with lousy odds. Bill T.

And here we go with Billt's vast knowledge of how the glock is better for EVERYBODY than a 1911. We already have one of those threads that you just cant seem to let die.

Back on topic, I had a springfield micro that was a great pistol. Ate any kind of ammo I put through it. The recoil was about the same as my full size 1911s. Accuracy wasnt to bad but I could tell a differance. I ended up replacing it with my sig as I wanted a dual action pistol to carry instead of the single action.

 

[mjbskwim]

Don't worry about him, Dan....just another closed-minded view from an armchair quarterback

Seems like you came on here on the rag yesterday.

 

[SteelyDan]

Seems like you came on here on the rag yesterday.

I think it's the word "compact" that makes him nervous. What's 3" among friends?

 

[wjv]

Years ago, compact 1911s were literally CHOPPED down versions of full sized guns. which is why they didn't work very well.

Modern compact and micro 1911s are DESIGNED to be compacts or micros, which is why they actually do work well!

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

I am another person that has never has a 3" 1911 that didn't work great. I have owned several and they were all perfect performers. I have had Detonics, Kimber, Para Ord, Colt, and Springer in that size.

 

[jordanvraptor]

Colt Defender in 9mm is a very good pistol. I would agree the 1911 is designed to be full size but I think Colt has figured out how to make them reliable. I recently shot this back to back with a friend's Kimber 3 inch .45 and found the recoil not that different. Both have aluminum frames. I joke with my friend and tell him the only thing wrong with his Kimber is that it is not a Colt... I bought the Colt Defender for the wife as she said the Glock feels like a toy and didn't like the trigger. I have owned 8 Glocks over the years so I am not a hater. She also likes the manual safety. I think its funny that the amateur picked the "expert's" pistol...

 

[DK47]

At first my Springfield Ultra Compact (3.5") used to fail to feed and fail to extract all the time... after replacing the extractor, polishing the feed ramp, replacing the guide rod/recoil spring, it now works like a champ, but I fear I spent too much money on it in the end.. $20 saddle on a $10 horse type thing.. it's also too dang heavy to comfortably carry around all day. I would rather just carry my full size Kimber Custom II, and I do because of this Milt Sparks Sharkskin owb set-up I got.=) I now mostly carry my XD 45 compact, cause it's the best of all worlds, round count, caliber, grip angle, 4" barrel(the longer the better with .45 imo).. I am currently shopping for a smaller gun, cuz I like shorts, and it is hot out..

I say look at your priorities, if your going with 9mm then I'd suggest getting something smaller, lighter, cause you can. Reliability is my top priority over round size, or accuracy.. as long as you can hit a man sized target within 15-20 feet your good.

 

[billt]

And here we go with Billt's vast knowledge of how the glock is better for EVERYBODY than a 1911. We already have one of those threads that you just cant seem to let die.

That is not what I said. You have a poster above who quoted you, and is saying much the same as I. You don't like it, and won't accept fact for what it is. That is not my, or anyone else's problem but yours. Yes, Mini Glocks will out run any chopped 1911. That is a fact that has been proven many times, over hundreds of thousands of rounds. Most people who have experience with both know this. You obviously don't. Again, that is not my problem, it is yours. I don't have issues accepting fact. Bill T.

 

[iamme]

I still won't own a Kimber for the most part. My first 1911 was an SA Ultra compact that ran everything I put through her. I am very happy with my EMP. Compact 1911's can be finicky, it is a nature of the beast.

 

[U201494]

Now you see to me this is not a test of a pistol’s reliability. This past weekend I put 1200 rounds down the pipe of my G19. Three weeks ago I put down 500 rounds. The weekend of the 4th it gobbled up 1500 rounds. I have yet to clean it in about 8,500 rounds and have had only two stoppages that were not intentionally induced, both were directly ammo related. One was from a lead round nose that some how snuck past me, it seized the weapon and took considerable force to rack the slide to clear the chamber. The second was a dead primer. It has been struck solid at least 50 times, nothing. I’ve kept the round and load in my mags to induce type 1 malfunctions for some TRB action. I even got a type three malfunction using it once, BONUS, I was stoked.

That's swell.... BFD.

Get back to me when your Cohen Kimbers do this.

That might be a while, I've yet to have a malfunction of any type.
.....and I have Kimbers that have exceeded your scenario many times over.
and I'm sure you have weapons, or know somebody who does, or have a freind of a freind who has something that can better that, so what?
Can we get back on topic?

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

That is an interesting statement something I had not considered and I will full on admit that my prejudices against compact 1911s is certainly somewhat dated. I'd like to hear more on this from folks more knowledgeable than myself.

It is more than interesting...it is correct. People who use the tired argument that 1911's were designed to be 5" ignore advances in technology. Glocks were not originally designed with 3.5" barrels either but no one claims they are not reliable.

Sadly though, a lot of custom makers are more than happy to continue spreading this falsehood. Some because they are still mired in the old way of doing things and care little for modern manufacturing techniques, but many because they do not make a 3" version of their own product and do not want to loose a sale. It is easier to try and steer someone towards their own 4" than it is to spend the money to properly produce a 3" model (which they could probably not see a profit on for many years due to up front production costs). Officer's sized 1911 are also not great for customizing due to their design and lack of large areas for custom scalloping, scroll work, etc. Stuff that looks awesome on a larger gun often looks cluttered and unsightly on a small gun.

I got into a very heated e-mail debate about this topic with a well known custom maker once. It ended with him just calling me names because he could not defend his position that 3" 1911's were unreliable.

 

[swoop]

Colt Defender in 9mm is a very good pistol. I would agree the 1911 is designed to be full size but I think Colt has figured out how to make them reliable. I recently shot this back to back with a friend's Kimber 3 inch .45 and found the recoil not that different. Both have aluminum frames. I joke with my friend and tell him the only thing wrong with his Kimber is that it is not a Colt... I bought the Colt Defender for the wife as she said the Glock feels like a toy and didn't like the trigger. I have owned 8 Glocks over the years so I am not a hater. She also likes the manual safety. I think its funny that the amateur picked the "expert's" pistol...

 

[billt]

Yeah but that joker is just an “armchair quarterback” I would listen to him.

Yeah, "Armchair Quarterbacks". Sounds like Hussein critisizing the Republicans. More money, not less spending. I would love to know how many Mini Glocks these anti Glock "experts" personally own and shoot? Along with how much ammo they've put downrange with all of them? If they shot as much ammunition as they do words, they'd all be in good shape! Bill T.

 

[22many]

Now you see to me this is not a test of a pistol's reliability. This past weekend I put 1200 rounds down the pipe of my G19. Three weeks ago I put down 500 rounds. The weekend of the 4th it gobbled up 1500 rounds. I have yet to clean it in about 8,500 rounds and have had only two stoppages that were not intentionally induced, both were directly ammo related. One was from a lead round nose that some how snuck past me, it seized the weapon and took considerable force to rack the slide to clear the chamber. The second was a dead primer. It has been struck solid at least 50 times, nothing. I've kept the round and load in my mags to induce type 1 malfunctions for some TRB action. I even got a type three malfunction using it once, BONUS, I was stoked.

Get back to me when your Cohen Kimbers do this.



IMO the overwhelming mass majority of people are better served with a Glock over a 1911 and it takes more than popping 500 rounds a year to realize this. Bottom line the 1911 is like a 428 Cobra Jet with two 4 barrel carburetors and a NOS. In order to keep it running right you need to adjust the carbs just so, wrench on this, bang on that, tweak it here and it will run like a bat out of ****. It is a system that requires special knowledge and dedication. Hard use 1911 users know this and accept this.

I dont agree with this at all. I own plenty of 1911s and have had very minimal problems. Never had to do any "tweeking" to get then to "run right". I think its kind of funny that someone has to claim that you have to "tweek" an design that has worked for 100 years.

 

[22many]

That is not what I said. You have a poster above who quoted you, and is saying much the same as I. You don't like it, and won't accept fact for what it is. That is not my, or anyone else's problem but yours. Yes, Mini Glocks will out run any chopped 1911. That is a fact that has been proven many times, over hundreds of thousands of rounds. Most people who have experience with both know this. You obviously don't. Again, that is not my problem, it is yours. I don't have issues accepting fact. Bill T.

Wow. You have seemed to open your mind a little bit in your short time here. This is good. Maybe you ways of bullying people into your way of thinking are over. Lol.....