Announcement Community Moderation & Reported Posts

[Joe Link]

Community Moderation & Reported Posts

As discussed in this thread, we're making changes in order to improve the atmosphere of Northwest Firearms. This new system will remove threads or posts which are reported by multiple members, placing them in a 'moderation queue'. After review a moderator will choose to delete or restore the item (depending on whether the complaints are valid) and issue an appropriate warning (if needed).

1. Member observes a rule violation.
2. Member reports the violation using the report button.
3. Thread or post is hidden from view and submitted for moderator action.

In implementing this new feature our aim is to get the community more involved in the moderation of the site. With the community using this feature it's our hope that this will become the primary method for moderation content here, but this will only happen with widespread use.

Two Notes:

1. Moderator permissions have not changed.
2. Every report is reviewed regardless of whether the content was removed via community moderation.

Feel free to discuss this here.

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[bolus]

Its worth a try. On reddit, the down vote tends to work more as a "I disagree with this post" or "I dont like this guy" rather than a "this is a crappy post" so if lets say Prozanski shows up and writes a really good post about comparing 308 to 6.5 creedmore it might get reported just because of we all hate him with the intensity of a 1000 suns. But I guess the moderator review would catch those.

 

[etrain16]

Its worth a try. On reddit, the down vote tends to work more as a "I disagree with this post" or "I dont like this guy" rather than a "this is a crappy post" so if lets say Prozanski shows up and writes a really good post about comparing 308 to 6.5 creedmore it might get reported just because of we all hate him with the intensity of a 1000 suns. But I guess the moderator review would catch those.

Thanks for the laugh

 

[Lilhigbee]

I agree it's worth a shot. Just curious, will every reported post disappear until a mod sees it, or only after "X" number of member reports does it disappear??

 

[Joe Link]

Its worth a try. On reddit, the down vote tends to work more as a "I disagree with this post" or "I dont like this guy" rather than a "this is a crappy post" so if lets say Prozanski shows up and writes a really good post about comparing 308 to 6.5 creedmore it might get reported just because of we all hate him with the intensity of a 1000 suns. But I guess the moderator review would catch those.

This is exactly what we don't want; people reporting content they simply don't like. The report feature is to be used for rule violations only, and (as you said) the moderator review will prevent abuse. I'll be updating the rules to include one for potential abuse, though I don't think it'll be an issue.

I agree it's worth a shot. Just curious, will every reported post disappear until a mod sees it, or only after "X" number of member reports does it disappear??

Oh no, removal after one report would be terrible

A thread or post has to be reported by multiple members before it's removed (which I won't specify to prevent abuse) and added to the moderation queue. We still see every report that comes through, so we can act on just the first report if need be.

Ideally I'd like to shift most of the decision making to the membership, especially for gray area content. We'll have to wait and see how it plays out to get an idea of whether that's viable or not, but the key is people actually reporting violations and bad behavior.

 

[Certaindeaf]

I agree it's worth a shot. Just curious, will every reported post disappear until a mod sees it, or only after "X" number of member reports does it disappear??

We could all try it on post #1 but that'd be silly and dangerous. lol

 

[Joe Link]

We could all try it on post #1 but that'd be silly and dangerous. lol

Feel free to create a test thread in this section to play around

 

[308]

Feel free to create a test thread in this section to play around

I'm going to go ahed and report you now

 

[Outrider]

Although I appreciate the desire to have a forum where everyone gets along, we're dealing with people. There will be friction.

Given the expansive list of things that can be considered an infraction of the well-intentioned "Be Excellent" rule, we are looking at something that could be enforced in a way that kills a forum. Encouraging people to report each other invites heavy-handed moderation and that can have a chilling effect.

I do not remember who posted it but someone pointed out the problem with this path. Initially, forums tend to begin with guidelines that are a rough set of principles. As long as they remain guidelines, good moderators have to consider the various sides when dealing with issues. This process usually results in action that is less drastic than one where there is little thought.

Over time, due to the conduct of a few "problem children" and a lack of uniformity in the moderating of the forum, the guidelines are codified as rules. When these guidelines are turned into rules, moderators tend to mechanically enforce them. Their adherence to the rules often becomes rigid and devoid of even considering context. Sadly, what once could be discussed rationally transforms into something where the moderator acts and uses "policy" to justify zero discretion.

Of course it depends on scale, but it can be disastrous to a forum where moderators routinely edit or delete posts. Some of the biggest forum splits or failures have been due to moderators trying to control too much. When moderators become too deeply involved in the conversations of the membership, the members will walk away. This happens time and time again.

Hopefully, the experiment will go well but take care not to damage the community for which you created a home.

 

[Monica Cowles]

Although I appreciate the desire to have a forum where everyone gets along, we're dealing with people. There will be friction...................................
Hopefully, the experiment will go well but take care not to damage the community for which you created a home.

Ultimately the moderators are supporting Joe's original vision for this forum... Nobody today relishes being 'bossed around' (For Example) Even if they have broken the rules... Still, when you are playing in someone else's sandbox, well, you know....
'Course, no one around here would get treated like that...

 

[Don H]

I'm not trying to be a dick, but.. Joe, your goals for this forum are not necessarily my reasons for being a member. I'm here to discuss gun issues in the NW, hear members gun reviews, complaints, jokes, rants, etc. I'm not here as a PR spokesman for all things guns. I try to be a nice guy in real life and on this forum but I do not participate here to market gun ownership. This is your forum, and you make the rules but this is just a forum and not a marketing plan to convince the anti-gun crowd that guns aren't scary.

 

[Joe Link]

Although I appreciate the desire to have a forum where everyone gets along, we're dealing with people. There will be friction.

Given the expansive list of things that can be considered an infraction of the well-intentioned "Be Excellent" rule, we are looking at something that could be enforced in a way that kills a forum. Encouraging people to report each other invites heavy-handed moderation and that can have a chilling effect.

I do not remember who posted it but someone pointed out the problem with this path. Initially, forums tend to begin with guidelines that are a rough set of principles. As long as they remain guidelines, good moderators have to consider the various sides when dealing with issues. This process usually results in action that is less drastic than one where there is little thought.

Over time, due to the conduct of a few "problem children" and a lack of uniformity in the moderating of the forum, the guidelines are codified as rules. When these guidelines are turned into rules, moderators tend to mechanically enforce them. Their adherence to the rules often becomes rigid and devoid of even considering context. Sadly, what once could be discussed rationally transforms into something where the moderator acts and uses "policy" to justify zero discretion.

Of course it depends on scale, but it can be disastrous to a forum where moderators routinely edit or delete posts. Some of the biggest forum splits or failures have been due to moderators trying to control too much. When moderators become too deeply involved in the conversations of the membership, the members will walk away. This happens time and time again.

Hopefully, the experiment will go well but take care not to damage the community for which you created a home.

Great post, I like how you correctly pointed out many of the pitfalls we face when it comes to moderation. I don't view members reporting bad behavior to be a negative at all. If someone were being unsafe on an unsafe firing line it's up to the person who sees it to mention it to them and/or notify the people in charge. Nothing wrong with the community taking pride in and caring for this which they helped build. That said, there's a very real chance this could blow up in our face. If so we'll simply disable it.

The very reason I'm a fan of this system is because I believe if the community as a whole is involved it might make things more consistent from a moderation standpoint. The key here is that it isn't just one report that removes the thread or post but several, and we can see each one. If we see a group of guys running around the forum reporting content they don't like we can easily address that. If we think we need to back off a little we can raise the number of reports required to remove the content.

A few months back we were where you described, very robotic and by the book with the moderation. We'll see if this is any better. I don't want to go back there, but we will if that's what it takes to make these changes. Many forums do quite well with so-called 'heavy handed' moderation, but I really don't want to go that route.

I'm not trying to be a dick, but.. Joe, your goals for this forum are not necessarily my reasons for being a member. I'm here to discuss gun issues in the NW, hear members gun reviews, complaints, jokes, rants, etc. I'm not here as a PR spokesman for all things guns. I try to be a nice guy in real life and on this forum but I do not participate here to market gun ownership. This is your forum, and you make the rules but this is just a forum and not a marketing plan to convince the anti-gun crowd that guns aren't scary.

I don't want anyone to feel like they have to be actively working toward our goals with us, it's definitely not a requirement for membership and nobody is going to hold it against you. Members are more than welcome to think I'm full of crap, and quite a few do. All I ask is that everyone respect what we're trying to do here, follow the rules, and don't work against us

 

[Koda]

if you report a post will the person who wrote the post be able to see who it was that reported them?

 

[Joe Link]

if you report a post will the person who wrote the post be able to see who it was that reported them?

Nope.

 

[308]

if you report a post will the person who wrote the post be able to see who it was that reported them?

More like this:
http://www.hulu.com/watch/29856

 

[Koda]

This new system will remove threads or posts which are reported by multiple members, placing them in a 'moderation queue'.

when does this new system become active? Can we start using this now?

A thread or post has to be reported by multiple members before it's removed (which I won't specify to prevent abuse) and added to the moderation queue. We still see every report that comes through, so we can act on just the first report if need be.

Ideally I'd like to shift most of the decision making to the membership, especially for gray area content.

I like this idea and think it has potential to work out especially with the reporting being anonymous. As the reports come in the moderators will get a better picture of who is being toxic. The unspecified count moderation queue will prevent abusing the system and allow the mods to focus on the bigger problems first.

 

[Joe Link]

when does this new system become active? Can we start using this now?


I like this idea and think it has potential to work out especially with the reporting being anonymous. As the reports come in the moderators will get a better picture of who is being toxic. The unspecified count moderation queue will prevent abusing the system and allow the mods to focus on the bigger problems first.

It's active as of yesterday, and that's exactly what I'm hoping for

 

[DuneHopper]

Hmmm so say I post a thread about how much we all love Prozanski
Its gets reported into the cue.
The Mods say Ok its good its put back and then they report it again and again my thread is removed. I can see a member going WTF in all caps LOL.
I am not sure how your moderation is setup and why that would be rare that would surely piss
off someone who got approved only to feel ganged up on again.
I can also as other pointed out see it as abuse as now Antis can come in here take a great post and report it cause of what it might contain yes it will eventually be reviewed but we all know there are infiltrators in all gun groups I can see this as a potential issue. Any loop hole to cause issues antis love seem there is one possible in this ?? But unsure how your mod system is setup.
Then on the reverse you can't really punish people for reporting because then they wont ever again and if word gets around if you report falsely or you didn't realize then you could get in trouble it comes right back to the cop patrol mentality . There are other loop holes I was thinking about but didn't post here cause I think it would be done to give antis ammo.
I know i get the point of getting the bad guys in the group I truly get it, but by setting up a system that could be missed used had me going hmmmmm. Good idea I think but I don't run the site so I don't know all the particulars.

Just my thoughts on it.

 

[Koda]

I know i get the point of getting the bad guys in the group I truly get it, but by setting up a system that could be missed used had me going hmmmmm.

just about anything can be misused, the good part about this is it falls back on a person doing the right thing... Joe Link. If someone is abusing the system then they can block that someone from using the report feature or just block them entirely. No set of rules can determine such actions on their own (as we know from gun control laws...). I think Joe is on the right track here. I'm not worried about antis lurking here especially in a non-toxic environment they wont have anything to use against us we are all law abiding and preach safety. That will be a positive thing for newcomers to guns who are opposite politically, they will see the discussion and might observe why so many things politically don't make sense for more gun control.

along with be excellent to each other my motto is do the right thing. If someone reports me, Joe will know the truth.

 

[Joe Link]

Hmmm so say I post a thread about how much we all love Prozanski
Its gets reported into the cue.
The Mods say Ok its good its put back and then they report it again and again my thread is removed. I can see a member going WTF in all caps LOL.
I am not sure how your moderation is setup and why that would be rare that would surely piss
off someone who got approved only to feel ganged up on again.
I can also as other pointed out see it as abuse as now Antis can come in here take a great post and report it cause of what it might contain yes it will eventually be reviewed but we all know there are infiltrators in all gun groups I can see this as a potential issue. Any loop hole to cause issues antis love seem there is one possible in this ?? But unsure how your mod system is setup.
Then on the reverse you can't really punish people for reporting because then they wont ever again and if word gets around if you report falsely or you didn't realize then you could get in trouble it comes right back to the cop patrol mentality . There are other loop holes I was thinking about but didn't post here cause I think it would be done to give antis ammo.
I know i get the point of getting the bad guys in the group I truly get it, but by setting up a system that could be missed used had me going hmmmmm. Good idea I think but I don't run the site so I don't know all the particulars.

Just my thoughts on it.

These are all good and valid concerns, but I wouldn't worry until it actually happens. As @Koda mentioned, everything is checked by an actual person rather than an automated system, so the potential for abuse should be quite low.