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Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by riverrat373, Jul 15, 2011.

  1. riverrat373

    riverrat373 Washington State Member

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    I find it quite disturbing that many on this forum (and on other firearms forums) can be so hateful and intolerant of the opinions and politics of those that do not agree with them. We all have a common interest and love for firearms and it seems to me that we should all pull together to maintain our hobby.

    Because someone has different political beliefs and priorities does not make them your enemy! I'm sure that not all conservatives are gun lovers or hate social programs just as I'm sure not all liberals hate guns and support big government. This country was founded on TOLERANCE of others' beliefs! There is an old saying...." A mind is like a parachute, it works best when fully open".

    It is our responsibility as citizens to let our elected officials know how we stand on issues, no matter the political party you belong to. If they don't listen, then don't vote for them again.

    It seems that there is an inordinate amount of hate for our government. I think that if you look around, we still have the best governing system and freedoms of ANY other country on this planet! :thumbup:
  2. elsullo

    elsullo Portland Oregon New Member

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    COMMUNIST!!!!!! (just kidding) Thanks for this post! There is often a poisonous atmosphere around here and it's even worse on other boards. Almost always it is conservatives putting words in other people's mouths; yes a biased generalization, but still accurate. I often have to wonder if they even read the posts before they start ranting and insulting other posters, implying if not stating that anyone who has a different view is a TRAITOR. They seem obsessed with the idea that "you are either 100% with them or you must be 100% against them." Too hard to listen for the subtle differences, I guess.

    The very nature of Democracy is COMPROMISE between views. Everybody in government must give in somewhere; nobody gets everything they want. Everybody must agree to get along until the next election! If only one view triumphs then it is totalitarianism, and that can only breed violent revolution eventually.

    Things would go so much smoother here if people would only carefully read each other's posts and not jump to conclusions based upon personal stereotypes, which are usually quite ignorant. There are no traitors here, and we have much more in common than not. We are all just folks trying to find our way and help each other out as civilization goes through its current trials. Thanks for bringing this thread up.................................elsullo
  3. pokerace

    pokerace Newberg Well-Known Member

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  4. saabin

    saabin Eugene Active Member

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    Its the way our owners want it. If they keep us fighting amongst ourselves then we are less likely to wake up and realize who the real enemy is. ALL big time players on the political seen are bought and paid for and do the bidding of their puppet masters. Republican vs Democrat, Conservative vs Liberal ect. means allot of nothing in the end. Its the same people pulling the strings. Its their job to keep us confused and angry, and they are good at it.
  5. Doubletap

    Doubletap Newberg Well-Known Member

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    OK..I have to respond to this.. The idea that because we may share an interest in firearms..and MAY both support the 2A..that we should be able to "get along" when on every other issue of importance..we are 100% diametrically opposed..is simply ludicrous..

    I am a conservative.. As such..I have values and traditions that I believe in completely.. To say that because we may share this one common position..I should overlook..or "tolerate" your..or anyone else's views..no matter how abhorrent they may be to me..and the damage that I see being done to this Country..every day..by the Left's agenda..is insulting.. It's not gonna happen..

    I have a neighbor..who is on the Left.. He seems for all intents and purposes..to be a nice enough guy.. Coincidentaly..he happens to be into firearms.. However..as I said..we are absolute opposites on EVERY other issue.. We can discuss the weather..and..so long as I don't mention his groups anti-2A platform..we can discuss firearms.. But..that is absolutely the extent of possible conversation between us..without hostility..

    We are neighbors..we are courtious to each other..period.. Will we..or could we..ever be friends..absolutely not.. I cannot be a "friend" to someone who supports the destruction of everything I believe in.. Intolerant? If you understand that tolerance means putting up with something that goes against everything you know to be right..just to avoid hurting someone's little feelings..then I guess I am intolerant..and proudly so..
    Just Jim, Stomper, Jamie6.5 and 3 others like this.
  6. riverrat373

    riverrat373 Washington State Member

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    I rest my point! ;)
  7. Doubletap

    Doubletap Newberg Well-Known Member

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    If your "point" was that there are still some of us who won't compromise our values..just to get along with you..then..yes..

    Compromise and Tolerance are the refuge of cowards.. Glad I could help..
    Stomper and (deleted member) like this.
  8. Trlsmn

    Trlsmn In Utero (Portland) Well-Known Member

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    Some times what one sees has hateful is just debate. Everyone has a different level of tolerance so what offends some doesn't offend others. I like to say that if we all agreed on everything we could just show up here at 5:30pm everyday and give each other a digital equivalent of a high five and go on about our lives. But thankfully we have a place to hammer out our disagreements. Is it going to get out of hand? sure it is! but it can be reeled back in.

  9. donMiguel

    donMiguel SouthKingWA Active Member

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    The American Taliban. Different book, same old shinola.

    Over two hundred years ago, an odd collection of folks with very different view points managed to agree to the Constitution of the United States. What is so different now? The times were dire then, what with this new nation thing to worry about. But hey, even Socrates thought the kids of his day were out of control and disrespectful. (And yes, the Greek Empire is now in the rearview mirror, but it wasn't kids that killed it. It was excessive self interest and greed that destroyed the institutions of reason. Seem familiar?)

    "The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they allow disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children now are tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.”
  10. One-Eyed Ross

    One-Eyed Ross Winlock, WA Well-Known Member

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    It's easy. DON'T FEED THE SQUIRRELS. There are times I WANT to reply but don't because I know it would do more harm than good. Other times, however, I just have to wade in chest deep....depends on where the conversation is going.

    Sometimes, though, it is just better to walk away...
  11. MikeE

    MikeE Portland Well-Known Member

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    If you substituted the words 'conservative' with 'progressive', and 'left' with 'right-wing', this statement could have been made by me on certain (bad) days.

    What has helped me sometimes is to remember this quote from George Orwell's great essay - 'Politics and the English Language':

    "Political language — and with variations this is true of all political parties, from Conservatives to Anarchists — is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind."

    Read the essay here:
    George Orwell: Politics and the English Language
  12. Wood Worker

    Wood Worker Linn County Oregon Active Member

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    Sometimes it hurts and I know it would have been better to keep my yap shut, and not have extended the proverbial ten foot pole to touch the subject to be found at hand.
    Be it political, religious, or something crass, I have to agree with Ross. ( Walking away )

    Wars have been started for lesser things.
  13. drew

    drew OR Well-Known Member

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    Completely agree. I usually regret wading into before I cool off to give a response that isn't emotionally charged. I don't have to tell someone to FOAD to let them know I think their beliefs are misguided and they are ignorant/misinformed.

    If anyone's interested, I could probably dig up some effective trolling techniques and prevention. Many would apply here. Granted I've seen most of them here. Just other peoples take on dealing with them.
  14. Chee-to

    Chee-to Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Ha, a tad biased ? Pompous finger pointing, insulting and blaming others, not accepting "any responsibility", and still haven't figured out what causes the division, prime example of "pot N kettle."

    "poisonous," always it is conservatives," "obsessed," "ranting and insulting," "biased generalization, but still accurate," "them," "they."
    "we" was used only twice.
  15. Spray-n-pray

    Spray-n-pray Battle Ground Moderator Staff Member

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    Never mind, I decided not to feed the trolls.
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2011
  16. darkminstrel

    darkminstrel PDX Well-Known Member

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    I don't want to agree with you on everything. I like guns, I shoot guns, I like talking to people who also like guns and the shooting of them. Beyond that though it's the muthahumpin' Thunderdome as far as I'm concerned. We're still savages and 'reasoned discourse' is for effete nobles back in the 1700s. I'll use the volumes of language at my disposal to defend my opinion and beliefs with a flurry of prose artillery and such is my right as defined by that group of divisive jerks who decided that I could have that right. In the end though we do have that gun thing in common.
    Stomper and (deleted member) like this.
  17. scrappydoo

    scrappydoo Federal Way Active Member

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    I find it funny that Bill Clinton and George H.W. Bush can be good friends, but you can't befriending your neighbor.

  18. billcoe

    billcoe PDX Platinum Supporter Platinum Supporter

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    As of a few months back, George W Bush noted that he and President Obama talk every couple of weeks on the telephone as well. President Obama initiating the call.

    The threads that drive me nuts are the responses to a reasoned, well crafted intellectual post and position which seems to drop down to a personal attack with words much like this: "Yah? Well you are a do do head". Look, a small clue for anyone, if you are too stupid to be able to justify any position you are so fixed on with rational reasoned discourse, then maybe you should consider and take to heart Mark Twains well spoken words: "It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt." LOL

    Take care all!
  19. bruzer

    bruzer Grants Pass, OR Well-Known Member

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    My shop teacher told me a have a very good point. And if I wear a hat nobody has to see it!

    I feel the internet has a way of breeding a form of hostility all its own. The internet gives a voice to everyone. From the safety of our homes and the comfort of the computer chair we chat. Makes it easy, almost too easy, to give voice to some of our thoughts and feelings that otherwise would never have been heard. Oh the sweet sound of silence can be a very good thing.

    We are lucky to live in the greatest country there is. I love you Guys!!! Now lets get together and make some paper targets shake.
  20. Jamie6.5

    Jamie6.5 Western OR Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm, I recall more name calling, disparagement, ridicule and general hostility coming from a few leftist posters that seem to feel conservative = ignorant.
    Of course this usually rears it's ugly head after they begin to lose their argument(s) based on the facts, instead of belief in the current trend-of-the-moment.

    Two of the most overused terms coming from the left lately are "hate" and "(in)tolerance."
    The paradox shows up when the true definition of "tolerance" isn't understood by those that espouse the current pop-culture definition. They claim that to express an opinion different from theirs is an example of "hate speech." They make this claim because they believe they are "enlightened" and the conservative is an ignorant hillbilly or neanderthal that "hates" other views.

    As an example of this, there was/is a car in Eugene, OR with two bumper stickers on the back.
    One says: "minds are like parachutes, they only work when they're open."
    The other says: "Lobotomies for Republicans, it's the law"
    Now I ask you, could there be a better example of hate and intolerance, or a closed mind?

    Problems arise when beliefs begin to affect governing policy in our "democracy." (we are supposed to be a republic)
    As James Madison once said:
    If you want me to participate in our "commonality" and ignore our political differences, then please follow Mr. Madison's advice.
    But given that this is a forum for the topic of/views about guns, if you espouse your support for a political philosophy/party/candidate with a record of being anti-gun, be prepared for an argument.

    Even if you agree with said party/candidate on EVERY OTHER ISSUE.
    And don't be surprised when someone questions your reason(s) for participating here.

    There are multiple sub-forums here. As such, there is room for many opinions. Some posters set themselves up for failure when they use one to attack others for their practices.
    Like when someone goes into the hunting forum and starts bashing others for "slaughtering, murdering, needlessly killing" innocent animals. WTF?
    RB87, Trlsmn, Just Jim and 7 others like this.