Washington Committee Deadline Expires: Some bills die, others advance

shibbershabber

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I dont have the numbers off hand...

But it looks like the CHL restrictions, magazine bans and the risk protection orders have all made it out of committee.

Looks like we dodged the full on "Assault Weapon Ban" this time, but you are still looking at mag restrictions... CHL restrictions could vary from county to county, city to city, town to town... And of course the ERPOs which seem like offer 20 different ways to disarm you without due process.

Keep up the fight
 

deckert

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I checked into getting ERPO data from the courts. It's "public" information but virtually impossible to get ahold of without coughing up a bunch of $$. The convoluted fee schedule is designed to hamper access instead of aiding access. Add to that, the data "may" be only available via local access.

Da
 

deckert

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Aaanndd we're back to same 'ol crap of..A signed application for a concealed pistol license shall constitute a waiver of confidentiality and written request that the health care authority, mental health institutions, and other health care facilities release information relevant to the applicant's eligibility for a concealed pistol license to an inquiring court or law enforcement agency.
How about the morons that write these asinine things waive their rights as well? Or better yet, a mandated test BEFORE they can run for office to certify they have a brain?

Dan
 
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I checked into getting ERPO data from the courts. It's "public" information but virtually impossible to get ahold of without coughing up a bunch of $$. The convoluted fee schedule is designed to hamper access instead of aiding access. Add to that, the data "may" be only available via local access.

Da
It's a public record. Phrase it as a public records request to the public records officer of the relevant county.
 

deckert

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It's a public record. Phrase it as a public records request to the public records officer of the relevant county.
I sure wished it worked like that... by all means, please feel free to give it a whirl and let me know if it works. Washington State Courts - Data Dissemination System Data Dissemination

The closest I got is what's in the attachment but it's of no use. The above link & bottom letter are the better leads to acquire ERPO information. Be sure to view the image below for access pricing. The info below is everything I have from the courts. I'd be quite interested in your final results.

Mr. Deckert:
The information you are requesting cannot be found in the published caseload reports. You are looking for detailed case level data. Availability of data you are interested in is as follows, but you would need to go through the data dissemination request process:
  • Where can I find court records for every Extreme Risk Protection Order issued by the courts since the laws inception? You would need to go to the County Clerk’s office or the District/Municipal Court to view court files for extreme risk protection order cases. Documents are not available online.
    • If you want data about the case filings:
      • Case File Date data for the extreme risk protection order cause of action is available for superior court and courts of limited jurisdiction.
      • Case Number data available
      • Jurisdiction Name available
  • Where can I find the outcomes of the ERPO's? You would need to go to the County Clerk’s office or the District/Municipal Court to view court files for extreme risk protection order cases. Documents are not available online.
· I'm searching for any data relative to the court proceedings wherein I can ascertain how many ERPO court orders were issued?
Proceedings held: Available for superior court and courts of limited jurisdiction
Order Type: Available for superior court and courts of limited jurisdiction
Order Date: Available for superior court and courts of limited jurisdiction


· How many were dismissed? Docket/Event code for dismissal available in superior court. Civil judgment code for courts of limited jurisdiction might be available for this case type.

· How many went to trial? Data available for superior court and courts of limited jurisdiction. This data would be included in proceedings held.

· How many were false accusations? This data is not available in the judicial information system applications. You may be able to find this information by reviewing the court file in each jurisdiction.

Cases filed in all but King and Pierce Counties can be accessed through the Odyssey Portal. But you cannot search by specific cause of action. Searching by case number or name results in case data information, e.g., file date, resolution date, docket/events, hearings and dates. Documents are not available online unless you are a party to the case. Odyssey Portal can be found at: Odyssey Portal - Washington Courts Online Case Search.

Pierce County LINX information is available at: LINX - Pierce County Legal Information Network eXchange
Please let me know if you have any other questions.

Charlotte S. Jensen
Court Business Information Coordinator
Court Business Office | Administrative Office of the Courts
360-705-5213 | Charlotte.Jensen@courts.wa.gov

upload_2019-2-28_8-52-29.png
Hello Mr. Deckert:
I would be happy to assist you with your questions. The email that I received did not include your PDF attachment. But, based on the information in your email, my assumption is that you were looking at the Civil Case Protection Orders caseload report for the Courts of Limited Jurisdiction (district and municipal courts). I thought I would take the opportunity in this reply to provide some basic information about the published caseload reports, recognizing that you may have additional or different questions.

The statistical information included in the published caseload reports comes from clerk entries made into the judicial information system case management applications. The published caseload reports are an overview of case level activity in the courts in Washington.

You are correct that petitions for anti-harassment or stalking protection orders and the petition for an extreme risk protection order are grouped together for caseload reporting purposes on the Civil Case Protection Orders webpage. The category grouping is the result of limited space availability on the webpage. And you are also correct that there are crimes related to violating an anti-harassment or stalking protection order. However, the numbers reported on the Civil Case Protection Orders page relate to civil petitions, proceedings, and petitions disposed in a district or municipal court. These data do not, nor are they intended to, correlate to allegations of violations of protection orders. Gross misdemeanor or misdemeanor charges related to violations of protection orders that are alleged in a criminal complaint filed in a district or municipal court would be captured in the Non-Traffic Misdemeanors’ report, not in the Civil Case Protection Orders category.

It is important to note that the extreme risk protection order is not issued in an effort to seek personal protection based on allegations of domestic violence, harassment, or stalking. An extreme risk protection order entered by the court requires that a person surrender their firearm and concealed pistol license (if applicable), and prohibits that person from purchasing a firearm, having control of a firearm, or from obtaining a concealed pistol license. The Administrative Office of the Courts (AOC) published an informational brochure about the extreme risk protection order and it is available on the public Courts’ website: https://www.courts.wa.gov/forms/documents/XR_ERPO Brochure_2018.pdf. The brochure includes a statement that the extreme risk protection order cannot restrain a person from contacting another person nor can it order a person to stay away from another person or place. This is not the intent of the extreme risk protection order.

You mentioned that you cannot identify where information is coming from in the Civil Case Protection Orders data. As I mentioned above, the data reported here is based on entries made by court clerk staff in the judicial information system. The Total Petitions Filed would be the total of all petitions in the Domestic Violence, Anti-Harassment/Stalking Protection, and Sexual Assault causes of action for the date range of the report. The Total Petitions Disposed would be the total of dispositions reported as Granted, Denied or Dismissed, or Transferred to Superior Court (for the date range of the report) in those case types. It is quite common that not every petition filed would have a disposition within the same date range. A petition filed in 2017 might not be disposed until 2018. Therefore, that disposition would be included in a 2018-dated report. No correlation can be made between the number or types of proceeding held and the number of filings and dispositions.

The AOC has data available about the number of extreme risk protection order petitions filed in Washington courts, the proceedings held in those cases, and the number of dispositions. You would need to submit a request for JIS Data in order to receive the information. The Data Dissemination webpage (Washington State Courts - Data Dissemination System Data Dissemination) includes information about the availability of JIS data and a form to submit your request.

Finally, you referenced the nonsensical reporting displays within the counties. I understand your comment and, believe it or not, there is a reason for displaying the information in the published caseloads as we have. We have a page for “Interpreting Court Listings” in the published caseload reports. Here is the link: http://www.courts.wa.gov/caseload/?fa=caseload.showIndex&level=d&freq=a&tab=Interpreting. I have attached a PDF document that provides a better description and examples of the court listings for your convenience.

I hope that I have at least provided some clarity related to our published caseload reports. I am happy to speak with you by phone to answer any other questions you might have.

Thank you for contacting us.

Charlotte S. Jensen
Court Business Information Coordinator
Court Business Office | Administrative Office of the Courts
360-705-5213 | Charlotte.Jensen@courts.wa.gov

Dan
 

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File a public records request at the county and city level, which is where it appears these records are generated.

ALL records generated by the government, with narrow limits are public records, and accessible through a public records request.
 
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Good evening, just did my part to oppose SB's 5062, 5174, 5434, 5143, 5027, 5745, and 5181. Will follow up with a personal email and encourage our representatives to end the legislative session on time.
Don't forget SB 5061/HB 1073, which would outlaw rifle barrel replacement or complete upper swapping unless you find one with a serial number imprinted on it. Come to think of it, any rifle that doesn't have both the receiver and barrel imprinted with a serial number would be illegal in WA -- plenty of commercial products would thus be outlawed this July.

(33) "Major component" means, with respect to a firearm, the slide or cylinder or the frame or receiver of the firearm, and in the case of a firearm that is not a pistol, includes the barrel of the firearm.
...
(36) "Untraceable firearm" means any firearm manufactured after July 1, 2019, which does not have a serial number registered with a federally licensed manufacturer imprinted on its major component. ... (omitting antique firearm exception)
Washington State Legislature
 
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Thanks for the catch...just sent an oppose message. The wording is horrific in this one. Looks like a college paper someone wrote at 3am and it would be due at 9am that same day at start of class.
Yeah -- paragraph 36 doesn't make it clear that the serial number must be on only one of the major components and so will arguably outlaw everything, even most commercial firearms. For pistols, that would be a serial number on the frame and slide. For revolvers, any that don't have a serial number on the frame and cylinder. And for rifles, any that don't have a serial number on the receiver and barrel. Very few manufacturers serialize every major component which means virtually every commercially manufactured firearm in existence would become illegal to sell or acquire. It's close to a total ban on firearms.
 

deckert

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Per the bill..(36) "Untraceable firearm" means any firearm manufactured after July 1, 2019, which does not have a serial number registered with a federally licensed manufacturer imprinted on its major component.
Per the ATF..“80% receiver,” “80% finished,” “80% complete,” “unfinished receiver” are all terms referring to an item that some may believe has not yet reached a stage of manufacture that meets the definition of firearm frame or receiver found in the Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA). These are not statutory terms or terms ATF employs or endorses.
AND..
Receiver blanks that do not meet the definition of a "firearm" are not subject to regulation under the GCA. The ATF has long held that items such as receiver blanks, "castings" or "machined bodies" in which the fire-control cavity area is completely solid and un-machined have not reached the "stage of manufacture" which would result in the classification of a firearm per the GCA.

If I read this correctly, an 80% build doesn't meet the criteria as a firearm? But the bill is still a piece of ch*t!

Dan
 
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If I read this correctly, an 80% build doesn't meet the criteria as a firearm?
I don't know -- one might think it would be OK to have an 80% part but do no work on it. It seems to me the revision would arguably identify ownership of an 80% lower a crime:

(34) "Manufacture" means the fabrication or construction of a weapon or device covered by this chapter.
...
Sec 3:
(1) Except as otherwise provided in this section, it is unlawful for any person to:
(a) Manufacture, own, buy, sell, loan, furnish, transport, or have in possession or under control, any machine gun, bump-fire stock, undetectable firearm, untraceable firearm, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle;
(b) Manufacture, own, buy, sell, loan, furnish, transport, or have in possession or under control, any part designed and intended solely and exclusively for use in a machine gun, bump-fire stock, undetectable firearm, untraceable firearm, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle, or in converting a weapon into a machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle; or
(c) Assemble or repair any machine gun, bump-fire stock, undetectable firearm, untraceable firearm, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle.​
I think it would be hard to convincingly argue that an 80% lower is designed for anything else than making a functional lower. Note that (a) is focused on manufacturing a weapon, and (c) is focused on assembly. This means that (b) is focused on a different topic (possessing parts) -- this difference in the sub-paragraphs can be used in the argument that the legislature intended to ban 80% lowers because it is clearly distinguishing between different forbidden acts. Notice also that there is a clear difference between manufacture and possess -- that would also be used to argue that the legislature intended to make 80% possession a crime because it intentionally used the words differently.

Even for those who buy serialized lowers, going back to the definition of major component in a prior post, it appears that this law (sub par c) would prohibit even the assembly of AR type rifles from 100% commercially made products because it is rare to find serialized barrels.
 
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Once it's finished, it's a firearm. If you are planning to build something, better buy 80% ones before 07/01/19.
I am not an 80% lowers/frames expert, so here is my question: are there good G26 80% frames?
 
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Once it's finished, it's a firearm. If you are planning to build something, better buy 80% ones before 07/01/19.
I am not an 80% lowers/frames expert, so here is my question: are there good G26 80% frames?
See my post above -- these came in simultaneously I think. Anyway, one could argue that an aluminum 80% lower is also a good paperweight and thus not exclusively for manufacturing firearms (I wouldn't bet my freedom on that argument though). For plastic pistol lowers, that argument would be even harder to make in a convincing fashion.
 
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See my post above -- these came in simultaneously I think. Anyway, one could argue that an aluminum 80% lower is also a good paperweight and thus not exclusively for manufacturing firearms (I wouldn't bet my freedom on that argument though). For plastic pistol lowers, that argument would be even harder to make in a convincing fashion.
I hear you...
The reason I asked is because I am considering installing pistol light on my EDC G26, so I might need a frame with an accessory rail.
 
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I hear you...
The reason I asked is because I am considering installing pistol light on my EDC G26, so I might need a frame with an accessory rail.
Best get it done before 7-1-2019 and have some way to prove it was done before that date. Maybe take photos and figure out a way have those pictures notarized. SB-5061 is one of Bob Ferguson's babys and I don't see anything standing in the way of it being passed. It's aimed squarely at DIY firearms but may have much wider consequences.
 

swarf

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Don't forget SB 5061/HB 1073, which would outlaw rifle barrel replacement or complete upper swapping unless you find one with a serial number imprinted on it. Come to think of it, any rifle that doesn't have both the receiver and barrel imprinted with a serial number would be illegal in WA -- plenty of commercial products would thus be outlawed this July.



Washington State Legislature
If it doesn’t have a serial number, how are they going to know if it was manufactured before or after the magic date?

Thinking specifically of 80% AR lowers.
 

deckert

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If it doesn’t have a serial number, how are they going to know if it was manufactured before or after the magic date? Thinking specifically of 80% AR lowers.
I would 'assume' they would rely on sale dates even though the 'build' could have been when ever. Better for them to guesstimate a date to prosecute so you're on the defense instead of offense. More so with the crooked biased courts and idiot elected people in the state. I say sale dates because a**wipe fergusun will stoop to any level to prosecute/ ban all guns in wa except those that protect his scumbag bubblegum.
You have to remember, scumbags like fergusun have UNLIMITED TAXPAYER FUNDS to fight you/us in the courts.
Like awshoot said, ferguson is sponsoring 5061 and the public be screwed.
Keep receipts of everything ...

Dan
 
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